100% Electric SUV From Phoenix Motorcars Recharges In 10 Minutes

Read about it at http://Muvy.org

 

Spam, spam, spam....

These sensationalist articles don't help, either. This subject was kicked
around in the Yahoo! Toyota-Prius forum a couple months ago and the big
hitch was the amount of power required to do a ten minute charge. IIRC it
was around 250kW - in a league with entire shopping malls and colleges.

If you're going to spam us, try getting your feet on the ground first.

Mike

 

Actually, that doesn't sound that unreasonable. 250 KW for ten minutes is
41.7 KWH, about $5 worth of electricity.

I leave it to someone else with a much wilder imagination than I have to
figure out where to get a battery that will charge significantly in ten
minutes, much less a whole pack of them.

 

All we have to do is upgrade our homes' electric service to 1000A and we
will be in great shape!

 

Actually, you will need more than 2000A and even more if you want to
run your refrigerator at the same time. Of course the 10 minute
charge sounds more like a "gas station" mode. If the "gas station"
wants to charge three of these vehicles at once, it will need 6000+A
service. Figure they will charge you about at least $15 for that $5
worth of electricity to pay for the infrastructure and provide a
profit. The real question is, how far can you drive on that $15 fill
up? I would be surprised if it is any farther than you can get on $15
worth of gasoline.

 

What? Your house doesn't have 1000 Amp. service? I thought that was the bare
minimum. ROFL!!!! Seriously, most houses up here have either 100 or 200 amp
service. Back in the 50's, 75 amp was the norm.

 

And how about the power grid in neighborhood to feed this service???
What many do not realize is that a gallon of gas has about 50 HP in it
or just under 40KW. A car is about 30% efficent (give or take) meaning
that about 13 KW from every gallon is convertered to motion. If your
car uses 5 gallons to go 100 miles that mean you have "used about 75
KW on energy at the ground. A eletric car is about 80% efficent so you
need to store about 95KW in same vehicle to get same range. Problem
with that is two fold. First it takes a LOT of battery to store that
much energy which adds a lot of weight and then there is charging it
because charging is not 100% efficent either. Figure on 120 to 130KW
of energy being used to charge a 95K pack (losses in batteries and
charger) so 120KW a t 10 cents a KW (though many places charge even
more) is 12 bucks verse about 15 for gas and not worth it. Also range
will decrease in winter because waste heat from a gas motor heats car
and figure on 3 to 6KW or more per hour to heat car. Then to charge
it with 100 amp service and running nothing esle in your house it is
going to take about 6 hours to charge minimum. People want to beleive
that there is this great splution out there and that a car is being
kept from them that they can simply plug into a wall socket and dirve
because they have no concept of the energy needed or the amount of it
in one gallon of gas. Just like they want you to beleive we can grow
our way out of gas problems with grain alchol even though it has only
60% of the energy in gas and increases CO2 emissions by 50% too. Plus
even if all the grain/corn crop in use was turned to fuel it would
only make about 1/3 of daily needs with none left for food. (we use
about 800,000,000 gallons of fuel a day and you cannot grow your way
out of that problem)

 

indeed. i find it amazing that lawyers are happy to bring "ripoff"
lawsuits for real, but nevertheless minor, issues like gas temperature
differences,

http://www.consumeraffairs.com/news04/2006/12/hot_fuel.html

but ignore the HUGE ripoff of ethanol!!! makes you wonder what they
teach at law schools.

 

Not to mention the fact that it takes more energy to produce a gallon
of ethanol than that gallon contains. You have to consider all inputs
needed to produce that gallon when computing the cost, fertilizer
(from natural gas), fuel used by the tractor that pulls the planter,
fuel used by the combine that harvests the corn, fuel used by the
trucks to transport the corn, heat used to sterilize the mash, heat
used to distill the ethanol, fuel used to transport the ethanol. In
short, it cost about 1 1/2 gallons of ethanol to produce 1 gallon of
ethanol.

Not to mention the fact that my breakfast corn flakes will triple in
price.

Jack

 

Law school 401:
How to **** your client in the ass so bad they need a colostomy.
Law school 402:
How to the above, with legal impunity.
--
------
Mr. P.V.'d (formerly Droll Troll), Yonkers, NY

Stop Corruption in Congress & Send the Ultimate Message:
Absolutely Vote, but NOT for a Democrat or a Republican.
Ending Corruption in Congress is the *Single Best Way*
to Materially Improve Your Family's Life.
The Solution is so simple--and inexpensive!

entropic3.14decay at optonline2.718 dot net; remove pi and e to reply--ie,
all d'numbuhs

 

SnoMan wrote:

Those are units of power, not energy. Power is energy divided by time.

Get your units right.

A car is about 30% efficent (give or take) meaning

 

Retired VIP wrote:

Of course. But that energy comes form the sun and is converted to sugar
and then ethanol by different organisms.

It depends on the process used. Today's processes used in the US take
about 1 gallon of gasoline to produce about the 1.15 gallons of ethanol.
So it is about break even.

But, in Brazil, the processes are more efficient and that it takes less
than a gallon of fuel to make 1.15 gal of ethanol, so there is a net
decrease in the use of fossil fuel.

Boo hoo!

Jeff

 

Ummmm ok I like this logic, but consider that if they weren't growing it in
the first place, they would be using 0 gallons of fuel. Not break even if
you ask me...

 

Oh gawd... Don't get me started on the ethenol scam.

Of course if you have stock in Archer Daniels, you might be sitting in
fat city.

Ethanol..... Not only does it cost more to produce a gallon than it
delivers in BTUs, diversion of corn production has caused grocery prices
to skyrocket. And you can bet your bottom bippy that the family farms
ain't cashin' in on the bonanza.

<sigh>

JT

 

And, don't forget that a gallon of ethanol has substantially less energy
than a gallon of gas/oil, to boot.

--
------
Mr. P.V.'d (formerly Droll Troll), Yonkers, NY

Stop Corruption in Congress & Send the Ultimate Message:
Absolutely Vote, but NOT for a Democrat or a Republican.
Ending Corruption in Congress is the *Single Best Way*
to Materially Improve Your Family's Life.
The Solution is so simple--and inexpensive!

entropic3.14decay at optonline2.718 dot net; remove pi and e to reply--ie,
all d'numbuhs

 

There is only 8 cents worth of corn in your box of flakes. any big
price rise is from gouging and mostly transportation costs. KB

 

Unfortunately you're correct.
Last year Consumers Reports had a very good article on this subject.
They said:
The Ethenol cost more than gasoline for the energy obtained and your IC
engine will produce only about 75% of the power it does with gasoline.
The vehicle manufacturers love it because they get a fuel mileage boast
if their vehicles can burn it.
Since there are very few Ethenol stations you may have to waste fuel
getting to one for a fill.
Ethenol is all about reducing oil imports from the Middle East.

 

All of this is true, BUT the good news is that adding ethanol to gas gives
you an effective octane boost, without adding lead or MTBE.

So don't think of ethanol as a gasoline substitute, think of it as a
substitute for MTBE or tetraethyl lead. And it's a WHOLE LOT friendlier
to the environment and the people working with it than either.
--scott

 

Yes, you're right about ethanol boosting the octane of gasoline. But
when used to boost octane, the mix is 10% ethanol - 90% gasoline. That
is the ratio used in most of the country. ADM, Cargil and the US
farmer are pushing for 85% ethanol, called E85. That ratio will use
more corn than was planted this year. It will cause food shortages in
our country as well as the rest of the world. More acreage will be
dedicated to corn for ethanol and less for food crops. Not only will
the cost of your corn flakes go up but beef, pork, chicken, flour,
bread and all dairy products will sky rocket in price.

As Herbert Einstein (Alberts older brother) once said, "Buddy, you
ain't seen nothing yet!"

 

That is actually an outrageous fraud. Chrysler was selling flex fuel
(gas or E85) minivans 10 years ago. Lots of them. The people who
bought them didn't even know, unless they read and understood the
little blurb in the owner's manual. It wouldn't have mattered anyway
because there were only a handful of places selling E85 in the whole
country. But Chrysler gut a huge CAFE credit on these minivans (IIRC,
it was like the minivans were rated at 40 mpg) which they could use to
offset the lousy gas mileage of their land barges and monster pickups.

I thought it was all about subsidizing ADM.