1986 Honda Accord LXI 2.0 FI

I was told by the previous owner that the beeps were this car's
version of the flashing lights. Should the tones continue to sound
even when the seatbelt is already on? If not, they do.

I did look under the seat, per the manual, but try as I might I could
not find any flashing lights. I looked from behind and in front of
the driver's seat. I will look again in a few because I have to fix
some speaker wires in the door. It seems that so long as he has
something to listen to as he drives back and forth to school that the
engine problem is no biggie for my son.

Thank You
Jack

 

Here's an idea. Buckle the seat belt before starting the car, and then
listen for the beeps when starting. I bet you won't hear them.

 

Oops, sorry. Didn't see where you said it still sounds with the belt on.
Never mind.

 

:

Whoever told you that was not too knowledgeable about Hondas.

See this PDF:
http://www.tegger.com/hondafaq/misc/3173_ICCR_E_14JAN03.pdf
starting on page 13.

I think nothing without the proper code.

See the above PDF. Read the entire Honda section.

That's not Honda fluid. Do not use aftermarket fluids even though they
may claim to be Honda-compatible.

Then again, your ride is probably so far gone by now that it won't
matter what you put in it.




It was the shop that

What a bunch of dummies. Probably just wanted to get you out of their
shop.

 

You know, with the internet being such a wealth of information and a
multitude of personalities. I can't imagine why I would ever have the
need to ask a question where Tegger might possibly answer me again.

You sir are an ass. You seem to take delight in lording your
knowledge over others and I believe it is unconscionable. Not only my
posts, but others as well. I saw one recently where you berated a man
for not using OEM parts and when he said he would try to replace them,
you made a mockery of his statements. I only came here for
information and certainly didn't bring this type of attitude with
me.

Blessings on you and here is the dust from my feet.

Peace!
Jack

 

it's amazing how, "with the internet being such a wealth of
information", that you can want to remain so ignorant. you got good
advice. if you don't want it, wtf did you bother wasting electrons
asking for it? goddamned idiot.

 

Hi Jack, say I think there has been either a miscommunication or else
tone has been lost due to the limitations of internet forum
communications. Please allow me to tag onto Tegger's post and voice
what I know and understand.

Jack, it is true that there are no audible sounds to tell a person
what the codes are. Unless the person who told you this meant
something other than audible sounds, then Tegger is correct that he
does not know much about Hondas.

For reading the codes (which consists of counting blinks of a light at
the engine computer), see
http://www.autozone.com/addVehicleId,1130201/initialAction,repairGuide/shopping/repairGuide.htm?pageId=0900c1528005f5a6
or Tegger's web site.

Jack, IMO the point he is trying to make is that, when an engine code
is thrown, speculating on a diagnosis does not make sense and is
pretty much a waste of forum space. IOW, first things first. Get the
code read.

I do not find Tegger's response rude. There really is a consensus on
certain fluids having to be OEM and only OEM. But I admit here Tegger
and I differ. I have been using an aftermarket PS fluid that very
specifically says it is for Hondas for over six years in my 91 Civic.
The aftermarket fluid is the one I used for a pretty much a complete
PS system flush. My 91 Civic is doing superbly.

The brand name of my PS fluid is "Coastal Honda Power Steering Fluid"
made by "Warren Unilube." It also says on the label that it is
"formulated to meet the power steering requirements of Honda and Acura
vehicles." It lists no other makes of cars on it. I buy this at Pep
Boys or Autozone.

If the Champion PS fluid says it was okay for Hondas, I am betting all
will be well, assuming the other fluid was not in there long.

He has a point. Your son's ride is somewhat crippled from the one
cylinder's compression problems. I would expect more problems down the
line.

No mincing words here: It's true they are dummies. Using Honda
designated PS fluid is very important. PS system seals failing because
of not using Honda PS fluid is a well-known problem about which you
can find discussion on the internet.

FWIW, Tegger and I have our disagreements but overwhelmingly he
(including his communications style) is pretty darn good about helping
folks get their rides back together. He works his rear off to maintain
a very good DIY site. I would say nearly all of us could maybe stand a
beer (all right, a shot of vodka) once in awhile before posting. But I
did not find this particular post insulting.

1.5 cents.

It has been an interesting thread and I look forward to seeing how
this engine of yours holds out.

 

:

This is Usenet; a thick skin is a Useful thing on Usenet

You are free to ask inane questions, and I am free to blather on in
answer to them. You can always killfile me, you know. My handle never
changes, so I should be easy to filter out.

I do?

You came here looking for answers and I gave answers as best I could.
What more do you want?

Because so many people /do/ make such promises and never follow through,
to their detriment.

I see an awful lot of problems that were caused by the use of
aftermarket parts and nothing else. My opinion of most aftermarket is
very low.

Just the other day there was this guy with sticky brakes. Turned out his
aftermarket front brake rotors had the wrong "hat" height, so the rotors
were binding against the pad mount bracket.

I think you've got your nose out of joint because I insulted your wheels
(and possibly also you're mistakenly thinking the "dummies" comment was
directed at you).

As far as I'm concerned, an engine that has two-thirds of the minimum
acceptable compression IS "far gone". And when that engine is in a 22
year-old car with no value beyond basic transportation, well...

I'll take the blessings, thanks. You can keep the dust.

 

Well fwiw I have really appreciated everything Tegger has had to say,
even the bad news. If an answer is the right answer it doesn't matter
whether it is what I wanted to hear.

Tegger was right of course about the blinking codes "no pun intended"
there are 12 blinks and according to the specs that does mean EGR
valve which I will tackle next. I had to remove a cover that blended
in with the computer box. I didn't see little portal there and just
went looking for the blinking light. Since I work during the day I
have done most of this work at night with a flashlight. It was the
previous owner that told me that it was the 6 beeps that indicated
something was wrong with the EGR. He sold me the car for a very
little bit. It was his mother in laws and it was in his way.

The thing that aggravated me (hurt would be a good word too) was the
insinuation that someone would "want me out of their shop". That
stung. I don't know what I said or did to Tegger or anyone else on
this group or in this thread to make someone think that someone would
want me gone. I have always said thanks when anyone has offered
advice and I do appreciate people taking the time, but I don't know
why someone would want to come off sounding mean when all I am doing
is trying to ask questions. I am ignorant about Hondas. I am trying
to fix that. Does it make me a bad person because I don't know this
stuff already? I don't think so. If you came to me to ask how to
build a violin, I would not treat you like a moron for not knowing the
importance of medullary rays.

I am all for a shot of vodka. Actually the stuff my uncle makes would
be better, that or Grappa.

I have not doubted a word of Tegger's technical expertise. It was his
FAQ page that got this blinking Honda going to begin with and I gave
him props for that in my first post. Had it not been for that, it
wouldn't be going at all.

Perhaps I should have just addressed Tegger privately, but I didn't
and that was my mistake. I am not disagreeing with his diagnosis.
There are two threads going on in the back of my mind. One is trying
to see if this thing is at all fixable the other is pricing engines
and reading up to see how to do that. I know that may well be the
fallback position, but in the mean time I intend to learn all I
possibly can.

If I took Tegger's words wrong, then I apologize. If he did not
intend to sound the way I read it, then it is my mistake and I am big
enough to own up to it. If he really meant to say that someone would
tear up my son's car just to get me out of their shop, then I still
stand confused and hurt by the statement.

Thoughtfully yours
Jack

 

:

Ah, I get it now. But you're taking this wrongly. I was sneering at the
shop, not at you.

What I meant was that this garage is one of those ignorant and sloppy
outfits: they just want to take your money then shoo you out the door quick
before you make them spend time that they can't charge for.

If they're putting ATF into a Honda steering system, they very obviously
have no clue what they're doing and must have lots of comebacks. When you
questioned them about the ATF, they became afraid you might tell them to
take it out and put the right stuff in, which would cost them time and
money, so they just gave you a soothing BS story and pushed you out the
door. Don't go back there again.

 

I'm sorry. I took it wrong then. That was on me. Blessings on you
and I will keep the dust.

I haven't taken it personally that the little Honda is not in the best
of shape. That doesn't hurt my feelings a bit. It has been simply a
matter of tuition. My son has learned how to change spark plug wires
and plugs. He has learned how to shift a manual transmission. He has
learned how to set the valve lash and how to replace a valve cover
gasket and what the timing belt is and a good many things that before
he had his own car, he didn't give a darn about. So all in all, I
still think I am ahead. The car does drive fairly well, even with one
weak cylinder. He can use it for a little while until I can find an
engine to replace it. The body is in pretty good condition, the power
steering has recently been flushed and renewed. For a 22yo car, it
wasn't bad for the total of $400 I now have in it.

I won't go back there again.

What do you think I could get an engine for this car for?

Thank You and My Sincerest Apologies for being an Ass
Jack

 

Let me run this one past you all.

Has anyone heard that in 1986 the camshafts were improperly ground and
the actual valve lash specs are .20mm IN and .32mm EX?

That is approximately .03mm above the published max specs from the
manual. This comes to me from another web personality who says he
knows this for sure.

My question would be this. If the cam was ground wrong, would that
change the aperture of lash?

As it is, my son and I set the valve lash on a very very cold engine
today and it did indeed cause the whole thing to run smoother,
however, it did not fix the compression problem. I didn't really
expect it to, but the lash was way off and needed setting anyways. I
set it to the top end .17mm and .30mm just in case there was some
truth to the claim.

In testing the compression again after all of this I do note that the
plug is not fouled in any way, it looks to be "cooking" nicely just
like the others. It was shiny around the edge of the point and the
arm was clean.

Thanks
Jack

 

Please don't take that personally. That sentiment - the hope a customer will
just go away - is common throughout the service industry. It is especially
prevalent when a diagnosis is difficult. You will see it very often among
doctors (because they typically get paid by insurance only when they can
fill in a diagnosis on the form) and often enough among mechanics.

When I was a service manager in an avionics shop there were several
customers I hated to see. Some of them were just pains in the butt, but many
others were good people with really sticky problems. In the back, we would
groan when we heard their voices because we knew what was coming... and what
wasn't. We knew there was no more money coming from the customer - he had
paid for what should have been a repair but the problem was being stubborn -
so we were usually doing the work under shop warranty. Besides the financial
side of it was that familiar feeling of hopelessness, the feeling that the
problem was going to keep coming back no matter what we do. Nice guy - bad
radio.

Mike

 

been there, done that, and there are some real assholes out there [like
me]. but bad diagnosis is not the customer's fault and letting customer
relations get in the way of resolution is a self-fulfilling nightmare.

unless there is a [genuine, not excuse] design issue, there's always a
way. bad components are the manufacturer's problem. bad diagnosis is
the shop's problem. and as the guy that used to get "the hard ones"
that nobody else could solve, i can say that from experience. and more
to the point, there's almost always someone else that's solved the
problem before who's happy to share the info. male ego means most of us
don't ask enough. and that's dumb. and as this forum shows repeatedly,
5 minutes asking the right person can save countless thousands of
dollars and endless time going right to the solution rather than dicking
about and falling into the "replace stuff and hope" trap.

 

In fact, you are the least of the many asses I have encountered on
Usenet (I sometimes count myself in the other group). As far as
"loreding your knowledge over others", I have never seen that.

A 22 year old car does have some value. As long as you rebuild the
engine, the suspensiion, the brakes and put a cage in it. The it
becomes a nice SCCA IT car.

--
- dillon I am not invalid

When you wish upon a falling star, your dreams come true.
Unless it's really a meteorite hurtling to the Earth which
will destroy all life. Then you're pretty much hosed no
matter what you wish for. Unless it's death by meteor.

 

Why, thank you for your kind comments. And thanks also to Elle for the
same.

A very sensible suggestion indeed. At least a fun one, anyway...

 

Well, there is certainly plenty of ego to go around. I believe the
very nature of a man who would fix his own vehicle must include some
strong egotistical sentiment. Not that it is bad. I've personally
never done well being told that something cannot be done.

Let us look at this logically again. Yes it is a 22yo vehicle. But
the body and suspension are not rusted away, quite the contrary. The
headlights still flip up with the greatest of ease and the electric
windows work on both sides and both from the driver's side. The
interior is clean, the dash is not heat damaged. There is some
oxidization of the paint on the hood, BUT I live 5 minutes from the
Castle on the Lake (Eddyville State Penitentiary) and for 25$ and the
price of paint I can get the entire body redone. Do those things
contribute to the value of this vehicle and the worth of dropping
another BT or A20A3 in it? If I understand correctly those are the
two definite direct fits that are (more easily) available in the US
market. My son thinks the little Honda is cool. Go figure. He is 19
and has this fixation with things that he considers to be from the
distant past, LOL.

Again, I really mean the apology. I could go into all the other crap
that goes on in my life, and it could well be that I vented in the
wrong direction when I took what Tegger said the wrong way. It was my
fault for taking it so. I usually don't have a hair trigger. I guess
there is a combination of not wanting let my son down and also not
give in and be beaten by a machine. Surely someone understands that?
Should we go into the girlfriend issues as well????

I don't want to replace and hope. I think I am pretty sure that it
would be cheaper to drop a new little engine in there. My mechanic
will either do it for next to nothing or let me use his spare bay and
do it myself for nothing. I will buy him copious quantities of Liquor
and he will be pleased. He's a good guy and I have not wanted to
bother him to death with this thing because I wanted to learn for
myself. His initial diagnosis was, "Um, Junior, I'd just put a new
engine in it before I'd go messing with rings and sh%$, either that or
sell it and see if you can get a little more out of it since you got
it running."

Yes indeed, I am thickheaded, stubborn even. I can detect the same
quality in others as well. Those are not necessarily bad qualities if
tempered with the ability to know when to stop. I haven't spent
1/100th as much on this little Honda as I spent on the Ford Windstar
that was tied around my neck via a car loan for almost 8 years. I
don't have a car loan now, and all of that money is free to go into
either fixing up something or not. My personal car is a 1997 Vanden
Plas with the AJ16. From 95-97 Jag made a model that was not a
mechanic magnet, and then they changed to all V engines and everything
went south again. I bought it outright for one heck of a good deal
and have learned the ins and outs of it. It gets 24mpg on the highway
and 18 in town. I decided a while back that putting money into a new
car was crazy. I doubt I will ever do it again.

I'll stop blathering on. I ask again though, where can I get the BT
or A20A3 for this?

Thanks and Peace!
Jack

 

Valve clearances have nothing to do with the cam's profile, if that's
what you mean.

And even if the cam profile was wrong, this would affect engine
performance (and emissions), not valve clearances. I find it HIGHLY
doubtful Honda would commit such a monumental error as installing
improperly ground cams.

If you actually mean the cam was improperly heat-treated, that's a
different issue entirely. There was such a problem with a short run of
1st-gen CR-Vs and this issue, but there was a TSB out on that one.

What's his proof? A terrible mistake like that would result in a TSB. I
can't find any such TSB.

No. Valve clearances are set with the cams on their heels, where the
lobe is perfectly round and where there is no contact with the follower.

That's why adjustment helped, not the extra 0.03mm.

Typo? That's the manual's specified max.

Then you've got a good strong spark at the plugs. Has nothing to do with
the compression.

 

If the body is unrusted (a HUGE point in favor of the car), and you are
perfectly aware that any money you spend on this ride will not come back
from insurance or from a sale, then go for it! Put in a replacement engine.
If your kid wants to help, that's excellent. He will be FAR less likely to
abuse something he's skinned his knuckes and sweated over.

And if your kid thinks the car's cool, you're up another notch. Let him
think that. I have a daughter. For her, cars come in different colors and
are things you go places in. No interest in them whatever.

I get lots of interest and stare-bys for my Integra, but only from the 20-
somethings, who think my ride is cool. People my own age wonder why I
continue to saddle myself with a car this old.

 

No, I set at the manual's max which was just within .03mm of the
supposed corrected figures. I figured I would split the difference
and set it to the max spec. That way if there was any truth to this
guy's claim

My son, by the way, will be 20 in February so he's probably one of the
ones that would have turned his head at your car. When I saw this one
on craigslist I knew he would like it.

The money I plan on coming back to me is the money I don't spend in
monthly payments on a new car and monthly payments on full coverage
for a new car and any resultant repairs on a modern vehicle with an
incomprehensible computer system. Money not spent is money not spent.

So, which should I go for, a BT or an A20A3? Where can I get one?
Is there a better option to drop in there?

Thanks
Jack