1990 honda crx dx - wont start spark problem - really need help

I have a 1990 honda crx dx 1.5 auto
The car is stock with no modifications
I have done a lot trying to get it to run so I will list all I can.

The car died on me while driving it ... sputtered to a stop.

After putting a new coil in it I did get it to start for about 2 minutes
running really rough I am not sure if I fried the new coil but it will not
restart. It is the last thing I tried other then recharging the battery
which is good.

This is my main transportation and I am really stumped, somewhat stranded
and without resources to dump parts in it that may just endup getting fried

I really appreciate your help if you can point me in the right direction

Things I have done and checked.

- I get 1 blink on my ECU battery has been out and still one blink after so
it must have reset.

- Check engine light comes on then goes off after 3 seconds.

- Fuel Pump is Good pumping Hard
- Main Relay Checked with Ohm Meter all three steps - good

- Replaced the Cap & Rotor
- Replaced the wires
- Replaced the Igniter
- Replaced the Coil

- Spark plugs not fowled look Gray
- Battery is Good
- Engine Ground Strap installed Seems Good
- Alternator is Good and Turns Free cant really test output
- Checked all my fuses they all seem good Replaced a few with spares

- I get power to the Coil with Ignition On
- I get power through the coil to the igniter

- Engine cranks Starter is good
- Rotor Turns in Distributor - Timing Belt Good
- TDC Lines Up with Crank Mark and #1 Spark Plug Wire
- Engine Turns Free with socket wrench

- Ignition switch - does crank the starter and I get voltage to the
Distributor

That is about all I can think of so far.
looking at the wire diagrams I am not sure why it would not at least start.

Are there any inline resistors or anything that would do this?

Thanks

 

When you crank and the engine will not start, does the tach needle jiggle
ever so slightly, or is it dead-still?

 

When I turn the ignition to On the tach goes to 500 rpm
When the engine is cranking I don't see any real movement

Ignitor is new

 

When I turn the ignition to On the tach goes to 500 rpm
When the engine is cranking I don't see any real movement

Ignitor is new
[/QUOTE]


And aftermarket, I'll bet. I'll also bet your new igniter is bad.

When cranking you don't see any "real" movement of the needle, or you don't
see **ANY** movement? Does the tach drop to 0 when you start to crank?


Please be precise.

 

Just went out and tried starting it

RPM guage goes to just over 500 with key on
stays there while cranking

Think the cam position sensor is bad?

ALSO
the other day just before i put the Coil in
I had the Main Relay out to test it
It tested ok with battery voltage but do you think it could be an
intermitant failure?
I get no spark but do get fuel
Think direct battery voltage to it or bumping it may have got it to work
once and then fail again?


Does the main relay give a signal to the ecu -> then ecu to the ignitor to
tell it to fire?

also i put the heat sink jell between the ignitor and the small metal part
that it attaches (Heatsink i guess) to did i need to put any between the
metal part and the distributor housing?

Yes its a aftermarket borgwarner ignitor
I believe i replaced it for no good reason and the old one was good but i
dont know





"Tegger"

 

No. The igniter has failed and was likely defective out-of-the-box,
which is common for aftermarket garbage.

The tach gets its signal from the igniter's blue wire. That wire gets a
pulse every time the igniter produces a coil-trigger signal. If your
tach gets stuck at 500, then the igniter is putting out spurious
signals.

Go to a wrecking yard and pick up an OEM igniter for much cheaper than
your crappy aftermarket one.

Not in this case. The tach's behavior is the giveaway here.

No. The igniter is totally separate from the Main Relay.

In your car, fuel delivery is totally separate from ignition.

You put heat-sink compound under the igniter before bolting it in place.

If you still have the old igniter, then put it back in as an experiment.

 

Ok thats kinda hard to believe but you seem to know about these things have
been reading your howtos

Is there a way I can bench test the igniter?

Is there something that would burn out an ignitor that i should check for?

There is really no good junkyards here most places just send cars off to be
crushed but maybe i can find something...
Could a parts place or dealer test it.
I got a dealer about 40 miles away I could probably scam a ride down there

but the closest decent junkyard is well over 100

 

Then you haven't got much experience with aftermarket parts, I think.
Aftermarket has a very high likelihood of being defective right off the
bat. That's why I never use aftermarket.

There sure is. Lots of resources here:
http://www.tegger.com/hondafaq/startproblems.html#badigniter

Pretty much the only thing that wrecks an igniter is defective build
quality. And there's nothing you can do about that.

THEN PUT YOUR OLD IGNITER BACK IN AS A TEST. Or did you toss it already?

 

I have my old ignitor
I will try the test on it and pop it back in tomorrow
see what happens

 

No. The igniter has failed and was likely defective out-of-the-box,
which is common for aftermarket garbage.

The tach gets its signal from the igniter's blue wire. That wire gets a
pulse every time the igniter produces a coil-trigger signal. If your
tach gets stuck at 500, then the igniter is putting out spurious
signals.

Go to a wrecking yard and pick up an OEM igniter for much cheaper than
your crappy aftermarket one.[/QUOTE]

One can still find some NIB parts for cars that old. I have found NIB
parts for my 76 MGB.

--

- dillon I am not invalid

"Always shoot first. At the very least you'll
distract the guy enough to make the second one count"
-- Lazurus Long

 

The OP's igniter is abundantly available as-new from Honda, as are just
about all the mechanical parts.

But it's also expensive (about $120), which is why I suggested to the OP to
just get one from the wreckers.

 

True, give that his car probably isn't worth (on the street) $120. The
car is worth much more to him, as it's not costing a car payment.
--

- dillon I am not invalid

"Always shoot first. At the very least you'll
distract the guy enough to make the second one count"
-- Lazurus Long

 

Exactly
considering I just dropped
New Coil
New Ignitor
New Wires
New Cap - Rotor

And I have a Timing belt w tensioner
Waterpump
and 2 accessory belts ready to go on it

AND
I just bought 4 new tires in June with less then 500 miles on them

I am getting dam close to the bluebook value
HA!

Its been raining no time to work on car

Ideas for fixing this thing are VERY appreciated

Oh the old ignitor is a NEC the new one is a Tru Tech

 

Hey I was just trying to figure out how the ignitor tells the coil to
fire....

What happens?

The power comes into the coil and through to the ignitor

and then the ecu tells the ignitor to cause an open in that circuit

and then the power stops going through the coil to the ignitor
and it goes out the secondary to the rotor then eventually to the plugs?

so if i put a test light between the wire comming out of the coil to the
ignitor it should blink when i crank the engine.

If not then the ignitor or the cam sensors could be bad

and if it blinks then the coil is bad

?????

 

I posted this link before. You apparently haven't looked at it, so here it
is again:
<http://www.tegger.com/hondafaq/startproblems.html#badigniter>

There are diagrams and everything there.

Have you tried swapping back the original igniter yet?

 

Then wait until you can swap in the old igniter (not "ignitor") and stop
speculating.

While waiting for the rain to stop, read this:
<http://www.tegger.com/hondafaq/startproblems.html#badigniter>

You've been given an idea already, which you haven't tried yet.

NEC, TEC and OKI are original Honda. This "Tru-Tech" thing is very much
aftermarket.

 

No no chance yet hopefuly tomorrow I will get some time to work on it I am
dodging rain and work

I did perform the honda manual test on the original ignitor
http://www.tegger.com/hondafaq/igniter-operation/igniter-on-car-test.pdf

I went through all the steps which pointed to a bad ignitor
and then replaced the ignitor
still had the same simptom

then about a week later i got a new coil
put it in with new cap rotor wires ignitor
Engine ran for about 2 minutes real rough then died


http://i33.tinypic.com/dw5s9g.jpg

Here is a picture inside my Distributor with the coil removed and the new
ignitor in place

 

I put the old ignitor in and it fired up

I also blew out the distributor with compressed air dont know how much dust
was in there but a lot

So it is running but not normal

I dont want to touch it anymore today I dropped an ignitor screw and lost it
but i had an extra.

then thinking I better ... I put the cap bolts in a tray and put it on the
battery and then while reaching tipped that over ...

Very Not Fun Day.

but at least it started
Im sure its going to need more work

 

Do you think maybe i have a bad 12v wire in the distributor that is eaten
out inside and shows good with an ohm meter if the wire gets pushed around?

If the old ignitor works it makes me wonder what the original problem was...

Maybe the coil but the ohm meter tested the coil as good

makes it hard to trust it to drive

 

last question i will ask tonight

I dont even want to think what full a Honda Distributor would cost

I have seen aftermarket ones under $300 or about that
Rebuilt and new

Do you have any reccomendation on a brand?

Dorman, Cardone, Other

Also any other suggestions thanks