1992 Accord Shudders - DTCs

I have a 1992 Honda Accord LX. It has had several DTCs for the
automatic transmisison set for quite some time (approximately two years
for at least 3 of the 4 codes). There didn't seem to be anything wrong
with the car, so I didn't worry about it. The D4 light blinks only
when the test connector is shorted. I didn't even realize that these
were DTCs for the transmission until recently. Recently, the car has
started to shudder on accelleration (or under load, like when
performing a stall test) between 1500 and 2000 RPM. (It feels like
you're going over small ripples/bumps in the road.) It occurs almost
exclusively in this RPM range, although it has begun to creep up into
higher RPM ranges as the problem has worsened. It is very hard to tell
if it is a sputter (engine) or a shudder (transmission). There does
not seem to be a sputter in the engine when giving it gas while in park
(or reving the engine freely through the specified RPM range). I do
not have the service manual for the car (though I have been meaning to
get one). The codes are 1, 2, 7, & 8. I do not know if these are long
or short blinks because they are all the same duration with the same
duration pauses in between. I would guess that they are short, based
experience. Can anyone help? I would appreciate any help possible.

 

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How come nobody ever mentions the two most useful bits of info??
What's the mileage, and how recently have you tried replacing the Honda
tranny fluid?

'Curly'

 

To answer your first question: If those are common questions I didn't
know, last night was my first night to this message board. Also, I
guess since I try to take very good care of my vehicles I didn't even
think of it being necessary to mention when my last trans fluid change
was because I never let it go too long, though I did just check and
notice it has been about 24,000 miles since I last changed it. I try
to change it every 25,000 miles. (Change it, not flush it). So, as
for your other questions, the car has about 174,857 miles on it, and
the trans fluid has about 24,000 miles on it. Do you think that's
enough miles on the trans fluid for it to start acting up? It's never
happened on this car before, even with more miles on the fluid. I was
planning to try changing it this weekend anyway. However, here's
another question I thought of last night after I already posted my last
message: Is it okay to use Mobil Synthetic ATF in this car? The
manual says to use Dexron, and the Mobil Synthetic says it's for use in
vehicles that require Dexron, so I've been using the Mobil synthetic.
Is that a problem with this car for some reason?

Oh, and yes, I cleared the DTCs and they came right back (a long time
ago). Also, I've already replaced the entire distributor because the
bearing wore out and ruined all the contacts (common problem with this
car). However that's one of the few aftermarket (remanufactured) parts
I have put on the car because it was SO much cheaper than the new Honda
part, and I don't know if it will last. When it broke, it never caused
any sputters, it just wouldn't start. I thought I'd check on it this
weekend also, just to be sure.

I would really like to know what the codes mean.

Hopefully that covers everything.

 

change, as in change, run, change? or just change once? if you change
once, you arent getting all the old stuff out of the torque converter.

try changing it out with stuff (honda ATF) from the honda dealer. for
some weird reason, dexron, etc seem to cause rough/abrupt shifting.

if you notice a change for the better, change it AGAIN with MORE of it
in about a week. goal is to try to get as much of the old stuff out as
possible. clear the codes, see if they come back.

but at close to 200k miles on the original tranny, i dont know how much
longer itll last.


cant help ya with the codes, but hopefully the honda fluid will clear a
few of the problems up, if not all.

 

------------------------------------

The manual says you can use DEXRON as a TEMPORARY REPLACEMENT when Honda
Z1 isn't immediately available. Dexron will destroy your Honda, so the
synthetic version of Dexron probably has already.

7 litres of Z1 (drain-n-fill two times) MIGHT get you back in the game,
but it's probably damaged beyond hope.

'Curly'

 

-------------------------------------

Take a long look at this post about Amsoil in CR-V's. Sign in, then
SEARCH if you want to find out about other synthetics and Hondas . . . .

http://www.hondasuv.com/stg/viewtopic.php?t=11261&

Good luck with the tranny.

'Curly'

 

This should be close enough:
http://www.tegger.com/hondafaq/misc/91_legend_at_dtc_chart.pdf

 

Thanks for the help guys. One stupid mistake. . .

I've probably been using synthetic for about 60k miles. I didn't see
it say temp replacement anywhere in this manual (though I've seen it in
others). Argh! I see more and more you shouldn't use anything other
than honda products in honda vehicles. I was just using Mobil Sythetic
in the engine and trans. Now look where it's got me. While I'm at it,
is it safe to use Mobil 1 in the engine?

According to that chart it sounds like my A and B solenoids are all
bad. However, I'm not having / haven't been having any of those
symptoms.

Well, I'll try getting Honda fluid back in the trans and see if it's
not too late. I may have to drive a couple hours to even get some. I
just moved to Ridgecrest, CA and there's no Honda dealer here.

Even if it comes back, I wonder how much damage has been done? At
least my fluid hasn't ever been dark like the guy with the CRV. Maybe
that's good. Is this a case where I should just take it to the dealer
and drop the money and have them check it out and possibly do a flush,
just to get the rest of the synthetic out, or is it not worth it?

 

It would be an *excellent* idea to get ALL the old fluid out. Bite the
bullet, get a proper flush done, and see what happens.

In fact, if you notice a distinct improvement with one complete flush, get
it done AGAIN to catch the last of the synth.

This is NOT the time for half-assed measures. Transmission replacement is
horrendously expensive.

 

====================================

'Flush' is a dirty word at Honda dealerships.

They don't 'flush' honda autoboxes, just drain-n-fill them. Why not
order 7 quarts from the dealer and have them put it on the bus? Warm it
up, drain it once for 10 minutes, refill with Honda, run it through all
the gears for five minutes, repeat. Reset the codes. You'll know soon
enough if the codes don't return. If it's WAY better, invest in three or
four more quarts and do it again to be sure of good protection.

'Curly'

 

absolutely. its just the tranny thats unreasonably finicky. did you
notice it shifting rougher after you switched 90k miles ago?

a flush might just be throwing good money after bad. a couple of DIY
changes should do it, a few days apart.

 

Thanks guys. Yeah, I just drained and filled twice (on 4/18/06).
About 15 miles in between. It seems to be about 50%+ better. However,
the problem is still there. I was considering trying the drain and
fill one more time. I don't have the fluid for another change yet and
I was thinking I'd put a few more miles on this fluid first. What do
you think? What could be causing this problem? Why does it only
shudder in a very narrow RPM range? It's not like it's slipping,
clunking, grinding, etc. Could it be another part of the drivetrain?
This one's got me puzzled.