1993 Civic Hard Starting Problem

Kind of hard to resolder the likely bad connections with the relay in
the socket.
A better idea would be to dislconnect the negaitve lead, remoce the
realy(removing the coin tray and the hood latch will help(as will a
trained spider monkey, it is a little tight for a 6'2" person!),remove
the fuse tray cover and remove the entire bracket, it is held in place
with a 10mm bolt.
Remove the relay, carefully remove the pritned circuit/realy assembbly
from the plast case, if you don't know how to solder find someone who
does.
It is too easy to overheat and lossen the copper foil. Remove the old
solder with either solder wick or a solder sucker, resolder with good
quality rosin core(DO NOT USE ACID CORE!!!!!!), one site sugested
protecting thhe soldered surfaces with "silicon confromal spray", andI
think that is a good choice, be sure to tape the relays so that spray
will NOT get on them.
I found the reinstallation the hardest part, Imy big hands just had
major problems getting the 10mm bolt started.
I found this site
http://techauto.tripod.com/
to be vdery helpfull, too bad the link on the ignitor page to
"bench testing" was dead.
And yes the fuel system is under pretyy high preasure, you don't want
a leak
sparying gas all under the hood. replace the wahsers under the "Banjo"
coneectors and the 10mm? bleed bolt, place a celan cloth around and
under the fuel filet to catch any seepage, turn 1 turn an allow
preasurised fuel to esacpe BEFORE losening the "banjo bolts"!
The data I have (from F-Basic testing) is for a 1993 specific but says
it is for ALL fuel injected Civics gives 40~47 with the vacuum hose
disconnected,a nd 30~38 with the vacuum hose conencted. This is at
idel.
Terry

 

Kind of hard to resolder the likely bad connections with the relay in
the socket.
A better idea would be to dislconnect the negaitve lead, remoce the
realy(removing the coin tray and the hood latch will help(as will a
trained spider monkey, it is a little tight for a 6'2" person!),remove
the fuse tray cover and remove the entire bracket, it is held in place
with a 10mm bolt.
Remove the relay, carefully remove the pritned circuit/realy assembbly
from the plast case, if you don't know how to solder find someone who
does.
It is too easy to overheat and lossen the copper foil. Remove the old
solder with either solder wick or a solder sucker, resolder with good
quality rosin core(DO NOT USE ACID CORE!!!!!!), one site sugested
protecting thhe soldered surfaces with "silicon confromal spray", andI
think that is a good choice, be sure to tape the relays so that spray
will NOT get on them.
I found the reinstallation the hardest part, Imy big hands just had
major problems getting the 10mm bolt started.
I found this site
http://techauto.tripod.com/
to be vdery helpfull, too bad the link on the ignitor page to
"bench testing" was dead.
And yes the fuel system is under pretyy high preasure, you don't want
a leak
sparying gas all under the hood. replace the wahsers under the "Banjo"
coneectors and the 10mm? bleed bolt, place a celan cloth around and
under the fuel filet to catch any seepage, turn 1 turn an allow
preasurised fuel to esacpe BEFORE losening the "banjo bolts"!
The data I have (from F-Basic testing) is for a 1993 specific but says
it is for ALL fuel injected Civics gives 40~47 with the vacuum hose
disconnected,a nd 30~38 with the vacuum hose conencted. This is at
idel.
Terry

 

It's your relay. Just replace the relay. Stop being so cheap or listening to
all these cheapskates, just buy a damn relay and drive on. You'll never get
your solder joints to last like the mfr's. Vibration in your car will get
you right back to an open circuit at the most inopportune time.
Every body has their opinions, just like everyone has an a--hole, but I've
had my a--hole for over fifty years and thirty plus of them me and my
a--hole have been working on Honda's. Take it from experience. Good luck!
H

 

It's your relay. Just replace the relay. Stop being so cheap or listening to
all these cheapskates, just buy a damn relay and drive on. You'll never get
your solder joints to last like the mfr's. Vibration in your car will get
you right back to an open circuit at the most inopportune time.
Every body has their opinions, just like everyone has an a--hole, but I've
had my a--hole for over fifty years and thirty plus of them me and my
a--hole have been working on Honda's. Take it from experience. Good luck!
H

 

It's your relay. Just replace the relay. Stop being so cheap or listening to
all these cheapskates, just buy a damn relay and drive on. You'll never get
your solder joints to last like the mfr's. Vibration in your car will get
you right back to an open circuit at the most inopportune time.
Every body has their opinions, just like everyone has an a--hole, but I've
had my a--hole for over fifty years and thirty plus of them me and my
a--hole have been working on Honda's. Take it from experience. Good luck!
H

 

That's nonsense.(about their solder joints lasting longer)
If that's the sort of 'advice' you have to offer....


And I can save $50 with such little labor.

 

That's nonsense.(about their solder joints lasting longer)
If that's the sort of 'advice' you have to offer....


And I can save $50 with such little labor.

 

That's nonsense.(about their solder joints lasting longer)
If that's the sort of 'advice' you have to offer....


And I can save $50 with such little labor.

 

======== My Bad wording.. I meant: Don't try to remove the whole
relay... use the connector to pull the guts out of the case (leave the
case bolted to the car) Then take the circuit inside to resolder.

'Curly'

 

======== My Bad wording.. I meant: Don't try to remove the whole
relay... use the connector to pull the guts out of the case (leave the
case bolted to the car) Then take the circuit inside to resolder.

'Curly'

 

===============
Howard,

I can solder a Honda relay ten times better (read thicker) than the
factory. Why would I buy another POOR one? So I (or the next owner) can
have more trouble down the (dark / rainy / lonely) road????

Beam me up, Scotty.

 

===============
Howard,

I can solder a Honda relay ten times better (read thicker) than the
factory. Why would I buy another POOR one? So I (or the next owner) can
have more trouble down the (dark / rainy / lonely) road????

Beam me up, Scotty.

 

fwiw, relay contact points burn out too. when they're starting to go,
they run hot, which probably accelerates/starts the solder problem in
the first place. remember how bad car ignition used to be when they
used old fashioned contact breakers and how they didn't last very long?
relays are exactly the same type of electrical switch.

in the long run, replacement /is/ the best policy. sure, a resolder job
is a quick fix, and may even last a while, but if the contact points are
already running hot, it's a temporary fix. i keep a resoldered spare in
my glove box, but i use the new one i bought just to be sure.

 

fwiw, relay contact points burn out too. when they're starting to go,
they run hot, which probably accelerates/starts the solder problem in
the first place. remember how bad car ignition used to be when they
used old fashioned contact breakers and how they didn't last very long?
relays are exactly the same type of electrical switch.

in the long run, replacement /is/ the best policy. sure, a resolder job
is a quick fix, and may even last a while, but if the contact points are
already running hot, it's a temporary fix. i keep a resoldered spare in
my glove box, but i use the new one i bought just to be sure.

 

fwiw, relay contact points burn out too. when they're starting to go,
they run hot, which probably accelerates/starts the solder problem in
the first place. remember how bad car ignition used to be when they
used old fashioned contact breakers and how they didn't last very long?
relays are exactly the same type of electrical switch.

in the long run, replacement /is/ the best policy. sure, a resolder job
is a quick fix, and may even last a while, but if the contact points are
already running hot, it's a temporary fix. i keep a resoldered spare in
my glove box, but i use the new one i bought just to be sure.

 

When they are not selected properly for the application.

Yes,electrical engineering was not very advanced in those days.
Also,the buzzer type of ignition had to make/break contact many times per
second(thousands?),greatly increasing wear,and there was also flyback
arcing from the coil,which probably was the biggest factor in contact
burning.The Honda main relay only makes/breaks when the ignition is turned
on/off,once per trip.

That does not take into consideration bad batches from the factory.
These things are soldered on wave-soldering machines,and it's easy to get
solder problems and marginal solder joints.And even humans can have a bad
day.Like buying a car made on Mondays.

 

When they are not selected properly for the application.

Yes,electrical engineering was not very advanced in those days.
Also,the buzzer type of ignition had to make/break contact many times per
second(thousands?),greatly increasing wear,and there was also flyback
arcing from the coil,which probably was the biggest factor in contact
burning.The Honda main relay only makes/breaks when the ignition is turned
on/off,once per trip.

That does not take into consideration bad batches from the factory.
These things are soldered on wave-soldering machines,and it's easy to get
solder problems and marginal solder joints.And even humans can have a bad
day.Like buying a car made on Mondays.

 

When they are not selected properly for the application.

Yes,electrical engineering was not very advanced in those days.
Also,the buzzer type of ignition had to make/break contact many times per
second(thousands?),greatly increasing wear,and there was also flyback
arcing from the coil,which probably was the biggest factor in contact
burning.The Honda main relay only makes/breaks when the ignition is turned
on/off,once per trip.

That does not take into consideration bad batches from the factory.
These things are soldered on wave-soldering machines,and it's easy to get
solder problems and marginal solder joints.And even humans can have a bad
day.Like buying a car made on Mondays.

 

the back emf arcing is pretty much dealt with by putting a diode in
parallel with the coil - it conducts the breakdown current rather than
allowing the points to arc - and that's what these relays have built in.
so that reduces the rate of contact point wear, but they still wear,
and when they wear, they run hot. that's why the relay is of massive
copper construction - to conduct some of the heat away from the
contacts. the part of the relay that's running the fuel pump is also
responsible for switching a big reactive load, which doesn't help. you
can argue that the relay is not big enough for the job, but otoh, a 10
year relay's not bad in the grand scheme of things.

reject rates on machine soldered work are /way/ less than human soldered.

 

the back emf arcing is pretty much dealt with by putting a diode in
parallel with the coil - it conducts the breakdown current rather than
allowing the points to arc - and that's what these relays have built in.
so that reduces the rate of contact point wear, but they still wear,
and when they wear, they run hot. that's why the relay is of massive
copper construction - to conduct some of the heat away from the
contacts. the part of the relay that's running the fuel pump is also
responsible for switching a big reactive load, which doesn't help. you
can argue that the relay is not big enough for the job, but otoh, a 10
year relay's not bad in the grand scheme of things.

reject rates on machine soldered work are /way/ less than human soldered.