1994 Accord EX - Front Suspension work

I posted last week about a 1994 Accord EX with 235K+ miles that needed
suspension/alignment/steering work. It is tugging and jerking the wheel
up to around 40Mph, then a had vibration around 50-55, then a constant
vibration to about 80Mph. Any transition in speed will cause a
vibrationa as well. Oddly, if you go into a corner the vibration stops
while turning at speed, but resumes when you get straight. The
condition is getting worse, and I'm afraid it is getting pretty
dangerous to drive.

With the mileage, I'm guessing its the ball joints. The car is showing
its in alignment, but its wearing the inside of both front tires.

I figure a lot of bushings are worn out up front as well, and found
this auction on ebay:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/94-97-Accord-Control-arm-Bushing-Ball-joint-Tie-rod_W0QQitemZ8072764882QQihZ019QQcategoryZ33583QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

For around 160$ shipped this looks like a steal, but wanted to see if
anyone had any input on it. Wouldn't it be easier to just replace all
these parts at one time while the front end is apart?

Do you think it would be a tough job for a DIY'er. I have access to a
lot of tools, impact wrenchs, etc... , but not a lift.

 

wrote:
<snip restatements>

dude, if you don't know what you're doing, have the work done by someone
that does. just buying parts without a proper assessment of what's
actually wrong is, well, not a sensible use of your money. have the
vehicle inspected by an experienced professional and go from there.

 

The way I look at it, the car isn't worth the money to have a
professional do the job. I myself might not have the know how, but I
have family that does... hence the access to tools, etc. This car has
had all maintenance except for the timing belts done by either me or
our family, and it's still going strong at 235K+ miles.

Lower ball joints alone are around 80$ at autozone. That may fix the
problem, but to me its worth another $80 to replace everything at once
so I don't have to tear the front end apart again in case something
else is worn out.

 

eh? what price do you put on the safety of your family? and how does a
$500 one-time fix compare with a new car payment?

in that case, have them check the vehicle out and tell you what you need
to do!!!

that's not high mileage for a honda.

again, have someone that knows what they're doing inspect the vehicle.
speculation is pointless without proper information. once you know
what's up, you can price and budget.

 

sarcasm snipped



Geeeeeeez, are you always this argumentative or do you have a problem
parsing text?

The guy stated that he's done the majority of maintenance to date and
certainly, a front end kit is a lot easier to install than individual components.

Sheeeeeeeeesh!

JT

 

I don't think you should guess. It could be so many things.
For example:
-- Needs alignment
-- tire pressure incorrect
-- wheels in need of balancing
-- worn ____ suspension part

More importantly, the problem is becoming serious. Maybe it
is a ball joint about to fail completely. A good report on a
failed ball joint appears at
http://tegger.com/hondafaq/lowerballjoint/index.html.

You're right to be careful. I agree you should //strongly//
consider not driving the car further.

You're probably capable of doing at least a cursory check of
the ball joints by yourself. For one thing, you want to
check their boots. If torn, the possibility is higher that
the ball joint is about to fail. Checking for excessive BJ
play is described at

http://autozone.com/servlet/UiBroker?ForwardPage=/az/cds/en_us/0900823d/80/0d/1b/9e/0900823d800d1b9e.jsp

On the other hand, if you need this car functioning right
away, I recommend calling an alignment shop and asking
whether they check the ball joints and for general wear
during the alignment. If so, have an alignment done, but
especially note what the shop says is worn.


If you really do have the time, google for {"ball joints"
"tire wear" pattern inner} and a lot of fine articles come
up. Read more, so you know how broad this subject is.

Contrary to the assertion of this ebay advertisement, these
items are not //all// of the usual wear items. There are
others. For example, the lower control arm bushings may be
easily examined with the car on jackstands or ramps. Cracks
in these bushings are common and will be obvious.

Whether this ebay item is OEM ( = genuine Honda) is also not
clear. it looks like an aftermarket parts dealer, like
Autozone. From my reading and some experience, non-OEM
rubber anything is not worth what you pay. I note that I am
frugal and learned this the hard way. Now I pay more
upfront, but the parts last longer. I sleep better.

I have been replacing a lot of my suspension components
recently on my 91 Civic. These include the stabilizer links
(easy job; mine were very badly corroded on one side); lower
control arm bushings (have done bushings on 3 of four arms
now); front coil springs. Freeing frozen bolts on the
control arms, and removing old bushings and installing new
ones, all by one's self, is an adventure. That is, they're
only for a person with a lot of time and interest.

I have done all of it on jack stands and rhino ramps. A
lift would be nice, but if you're not too large a person and
can easily get under the car with it on ramps and
jackstands, the suspension work is quite manageable.

I am spending a lot of money on tools (or fabricating my
own). Still, the cost is far below what I would pay a shop.
Plus I will know that, for example, the trailing arm
bushings (in the rear) were correctly installed (orientation
of them is a bit tricky; shops have been known to mess it
up).

What kind of auto repair experience have you, anyway? If
you've never done, say, a timing belt and brake pads, then I
don't think you're ready to tackle suspension renovation.

Also, has the car been driven in a snowy, wet climate for
much of its life? That will indicate somewhat how difficult
the bolts will be to free.

Lastly, has the car (driven perhaps by a teenage son) hit
anything since the problem started occurring?

 

Alignment is good this was verified by a family member with an
alignment shop.
Tire pressure is good verified by myself.
Wheels could possibly need balancing... this has not been checked in
the last 10-15K miles.
With the amount of miles on the car, I'm assuming it's a worn out part.

Valuable peice of information thanks.

I've also been using this page from tegger:

EBSCOHost Research Databases
http://www.tegger.com/hondafaq/online-manuals.html

Thanks for the link. That's what I'm afraid of. The car is mostly
driven in the city under 40Mph thankfully.

Thing is we're only trying to make the car last another year or two of
regular use, longevity is not as big of an issue. I'm pretty frugal
myself. I will look into higher quality items though, considering we
won't be trading the car in. It more than likely will be a beater after
it is replaced... albeit a nice beater.

Yep not too large of a person here. I would have help from 2 other
people too, and would like to tackle the job in a weekend.

I myself have changed pads, one of the radiator fans, radiator hoses,
bled the brake system, regulary change the oil, etc.. on this car. On
my previous car, a 96 Explorer I changed pads, shocks, oil, plugs,
wires, etc...

It's my soon to be wifes car and she has had it since she was 16. Her
dad is who knows a lot more than me about this stuff and who will be
helping me. He's assisted me with a lot of help on this car. He
restored a 76 Celica with a full engine swap so I beleive he is pretty
knowledgable, although I follow by the book a little better than him.

The car has been in a hot and humid environment its whole life, the
southeast. The shaking has gotten progressively worse that is for sure.
I would say around 200K mark is around when it began. As of lately when
it started getting into the 90s here is when it begin to get real bad.
It has gotten even worse in the past month.

Thanks for the advice... pretty much what I needed to hear. I'll do
some visual inspections and see if the suspension is within spec.

 

Maybe I'm misreading your tone, but from the work I've been
doing on my 91 Civic's suspension, I don't think replacing
the ball joints will be such a horrid job, especially with
at least one person with some experience (your
father-in-law) around. Definitely have backup
transportation, though.

Looking over those BJ boots isn't hard.

I am only an amateur. I get my 91 Civic work done by
researching a lot, including pumping all the pros and
experienced enthusiasts here for tips, and working slowly.

This does indeed make it a tough decision.

Can't you move up your next car purchase a year or so?

From the sounds of things, you're going to put into this car
maybe around another $500. Although $500 for another year is
not very expensive...

That sounds ambitious, unless the other two have a lot of
auto suspension experience and all the specialized tools.

At least road salt hasn't been eating at it. OTOH, dunno
what ocean salt may due to those control arm bolts, for one.
They seize easily for Midwestern and Northern cars.

Buy a can of the penetrating oil PB Blaster and start
soaking all the bolts you think you'll need to free. I am
convinced that this stuff is saving me, as I work on my 91's
suspension.

I hope you'll update how this project with your to be father
in law goes. Sounds like an interesting problem. Good luck.

 

Well they say a picture is worth a thousand words. Here are a few:

Right Front Tire

http://img113.imageshack.us/img113/2083/rftire2lu.jpg

Right Front Lower Ball Joint

http://img116.imageshack.us/img116/5775/rflowerballjoint7vp.jpg

Right Front Upper Ball Joint

http://img86.imageshack.us/img86/5048/rfupperballjoint8wp.jpg

Left Front Tire

http://img108.imageshack.us/img108/7889/lftire3qm.jpg

Left Front Lower Ball Joint

http://img192.imageshack.us/img192/6743/lflowerballjoint8sl.jpg

Left Front Upper Ball Joint

http://img163.imageshack.us/img163/4539/lfupperballjoint0gu.jpg


Obviously the right side is the worst, but it apears both sides are leaking
at the seals. The wear is much more noticable on the right tire as well. The
tire wear is spotty too on the inner part of the tire.

 

Looks like my right front tire (Civic, 177k miles, wear
noticed around 175k miles late 2005, I think).

My right stabilizer link was the one that was all corroded.
Its rubbers practically crumbled in my hand; the bolt was
seriously eaten away.

Ya oughta post photographs of your stabilizer links.

My ball joint boots all look pretty good (knock on wood).

Is that black lava flowing out at the bottom? It's a little
hard to tell if the boot is ripped up here. But I guess from
what you say, it's toast.

Oh mah goodness! Am I seeing what I think I'm seeing here?
Yikes! Frightening!

I vote replace the right front upper BJ and its boot first.

How could it get this bad?

Doesn't look as bad as my 91 Civic's right front tire.

Looks like the boot is letting in dirt and water due to
being corroded at the bottom.

Is that an obvious crack/corrosion I see in the middle of
this left front upper BJ boot?

Note: There's nothing to really leak except maybe a tiny bit
of grease. Those boots are there "just" to keep dirt and
water out, AFAIK.

Sounds like you're on a mission which in my never humble
opinion is very healthy. Enjoy.

 

It is always good to remember that the right hand (curb) side usually
suffers the worst for damage/wear as that's where most puddles and road
defects exist. Over a period of time, this damage really stands out.

JT

 

Yep, I agree it seems like the uppers are worse than the lowers. I could put
my fingers inside the boots on both uppers.

I'll try and get some shots of the links tomorrow. I think it's in need of a
full rebuild.

That right front tire is about gone, steel belts will probably be showing
soon.

We're going to the soon to be in-laws next weekend for father's day... 2
hours away. I'll let him check it over for himself and give the verdict on
the repair.

For the time being we're limiting usage of this vehicle for going only to
work and back.

Thanks for the help everyone.

 

Good to know. That helps narrow the search for the cause of
the front right tire wear.

 

With that many miles if may be worth it to replace the whole front end if
you plan to drive the car another year. You won't reget it.

I replace the suspension on my 87 accord and it drove and handled like new
until I sold it. If I can do the work, then anyone can. Order the parts
online, take the control arms to a machine shop to push out the bushings.
replace all the rubber and upper and lower ball joints.

The lower ball joints are pressed into the knuckle. You can either get a
ball joint press or take the knuckle to the shop as well. That's what I
did.

Make sure you check the bushings on the radius arm as well

Reassemble and enjoy. I never regretted the work I did once. The only thing
I wish I did differently is that I did all the work in one shot.

 

hmmm. i point out the technical reasons not to have a drain plug on an
automatic transmission's torque converter, but you take it personally
and get so bent, you have to post stuff like this? why do you bother?

 

I took the plunge and ordered the parts. We're hoping to get the work done
this weekend. I printed 40 pages of information on the front suspension from
the 1994 Accord workshop manual.

Her dad has replaced the axles on that car before, so I believe the tear
down will be similar. He also has a ball joint seperator tool already. We're
going to do the loaner program from Autozone for the ball joint
remover/installer.

Up next is going to be new tires all around and an alignment. Hopefully it
will drive a lot better after this work. I'll update this thread after the
work.

 

We did the work this weekend and what a difference it made. We're lucky
we made the 2 hour drive b/c when we got there we took off the right
fron't tire and it had a huge knot in it with steel belts coming out.
It wouldn't have made the trip home.

We had a couple of cases of seized bolts, but nothing a torch couldn't
take care of.

We replaced the following:

Upper ball joints - easy since it came as the whole control arm and two
bolts held it in
Lower ball joints - pretty difficult b/c the remover/installer had a
hard time getting into the relatively small spot in the knuckle
Inner tie rod - very difficult b/c of the cramped working conditions
and the snap bolt/ locking washer that holds it in. It was hard to get
to with the boot pulled back.
Outer tie rod - easy to install, just screws in then has a bolt to lock
in place
Stabalizer bar/bashing - easy compared to the other work.
Front rotors and pads - the hub was seized pretty good to the knuckle,
but this was an easy job and made a huge difference in braking . The
original rotors had 235K miles on them and were never turned. They were
severely pitted though.
Right front tire - her cousin did that at his shop.

In all this was a tough job, but well worth the money and effort. It
took us about 8 hours to do the work. We got everything back together
and I took it for a ride. We had measured the old tie rods and
everything was straight steering wise. We're still going to get an
alignment and the tires balanced.

The ride is dramatically changed. The outer tie rod ball joints had
significant wear upon inspection. It made the steering pretty sloppy
before, but now its like new. No vibration and no steering wheel wobble
is great too. The brakes used to take a lot of effort and go almost all
the way to the ground, but now it grabs well.

I would say almost anyone with mechanical knowledge could do this job.
We got the special tools we needed from autozone and got our deposit
back. Other than that it was basic metric tools. An impact wrench
really saved some time and effort, but it could be done without. Make
sure you have a big socket for the spindle nut.

hondahookup.com has the manual for the 94 accord, and although we
didn't use it that much ... it helped when we got stuck on something.

Thanks for the input everyone.

 

Nice update.

How did the old stabilizer links look? Just curious, since
it seems like all the other old parts you replaced could
easily have been behind the original problems.

 

The bushings were dry rotted and cracked on the old stabilizer links.

After reading the post, I'd like to point out that the right upper
control bolts are somewhat difficult to get to. You have the ABS relays
and main fuse box in the way. There's about 5 bolts holding them in,
and you can push them out of the way. We had to be careful because some
of the wires looked fragile going to the main fuse box.

So we're now at 236K miles and counting. FWIW, I again have more faith
in her 94 Accord with that mileage, then my 2000 Millenia with 99K
miles.

 

Excellent. Maybe I'll see my tire wear problem eliminated
since I replaced all my stabilizer links w/bushings, too.

Aside: Yesterday I did my '91 Civic's trailing arm bushings
with my new, $139.95 tool in record time. Very easy with the
tool. Freeing a few of the five bolts that must be free to
do the trailing arm bushings this way is what took all the
time about a week ago.

I highly recommend the "Honda Acura Trailing Arm Bushing
Xtractor" tool. If it works perfectly on my rusted old
Civic, it will work on anyone's. The Ebay dealer who sold it
to me shipped it within a day. It arrived early.

I was wondering about that comment of yours re it's 'easy...
two bolts' for the upper arms.

Further updates on this car are always welcome. I want to
take my Civic to at least 250k miles.