1st service fo my 05 Accord

eh? so next time you fly, is it going to be ok with you if the pilot
doesn't bother to calculate the fuel load against the destination
distance? how about the inspection crew only bothering to look for
fatigue cracks when they "felt" it was time? alternatively, imagine
you're the fleet manager for a large haulage company. how are you going
to formulate your maintenance schedules? will your customers mind if
you charge them extra because you "feel" you need to spend 3 times as
much on lubes as your competitors?

bottom line, there's some method to this madness. disregard is both
expensive and stupid.

 

Nope.
Oil analysis.

Did you manage to destroy M1 in 10k miles, Jim?
Or did you just "feel" you did?

 

that's the way to answer the scheuling question.

why are you asking me that question? i'm not the one defending 4k mobil
1 change schedule.

 

Thank you for proving my point with your inane diatribe. As I said, there's
one in every group.

What you seem incapable of recognizing is that this is my maintenance
schedule for my car. It has nothing to do with airplane pilots, inspection
crews, or fleet managers. Admittedly, though, if they wanted to go beyond
the minimum requirements for me, I'd be grateful. I presume that you
wouldn't be. After all, why do anything beyond the minimum requirements if
you don't have to? Gee, you might save $5 a year.

As for customers being charged extra ??? WTF is that about? In my case, it
costs me less to change the oil myself with Mobil 1 than it does to have it
done by the dealer. So if it costs me $22 per change x 3 changes per year =
$66 versus 2 changes x $31 per change = $62, I'd say that for an extra
$4 annually, I'm getting a hell a deal! As an experienced mechanic, I find
that to be an excellent trade off. Something you don't seem to understand.
(Courtesy of Steve Bigelow)

Is he suggesting that you followed your own advice on extended oill change
intervals. LOL

 

No, Doug. I'm him.
Trust me.


RFT!!!
Dave Kelsen

 

Does the vehicle in question have an oil life monitor (OLM)? I ask
because my Ridgeline truck has one and the manual states that oil should
be changed (and this is true of the factory fill as well) when the
monitor falls between 15% and 0% oil life expectancy. For most owners
of Ridgelines at least, this service due notice appears between 5,000
and 7,000 miles, depending on driving habits.

The OLM is a better way to determine oil change interval than some
arbitrary mileage/time factor such as 3000 miles/6 months - today's
engines and oil packs are much better than that. Even though the OLM
assumes dino oil is being used, if an extra margin of safety is required
due to "severe" use, it is not necessary as before to do more frequent
changes but rather use better oil such as your GRP III and GRP IV and
synthetics. Chances are the oil interval will be extended as well as
you can go right to the "0%" notice on the monitor, especially with
synthetics.

OLMs are very sophisticated and are not the idiot light mileage counters
of old. Today's OLMs measure how we actually drive and bases it
assumptions on our driving habits. It does so by recording many things
such as temps and engine revolutions and places penalties on things like
short trip, cold start driving. The software is matched to the
particular engine in the car and this is very important.

As far as the factory fill is concerned and when to change it, much
depends on the oil you intend to use. Honda does not use some special
factory oil. It is a Superflo formula made by ExxonMobil but it is
super rich in moly. This moly additive, however, is not in the oil pack
itself but rather is part of the factory assembly lube and when mixed
with the oil provides an extra measure of safety during the critical
break-in period, hence, they want to make sure this formula is in there
for as long as possible. BTW, the old notion of removing engine ware
particles is of no concern these days due to tight tolerances and
improved filtering. This is true at least with the higher tech engines
made by Honda. Now, if Honda knew for a fact you were to change out oil
with something like Havoline dino or Redline synthetic (which are very
rich in moly) you could probably change the factory fill sooner than
recommended - but why do it? Let the monitor be your guide and follow
the manual except only under the most severe driving conditions.

Here is how I plan on doing it with my Ridgeline. I will change factory
fill when the OLM hits 15% with a quality dino such as Havoline or maybe
even a good blend like Mobil Clean 7500 or Motorcraft 5w20. I will use
only the Filtech or Nippon made filters and NOT the Fram/Honeywell. My
second oil change will be with the same oil and then a sample of that
drain will be sent to Blackstone labs for analysis. This will tell me
if my OCIs are timely and if the engine likes the oil I have chosen. If
there is any problem noted, especially in the TBN, which indicates oil
life depletion, I will switch to a good full synthetic and try that. I
have to assume the Accord would also be well served with this kind of
approach.

MARTY

 

i had an entirely negative experience using kotorcraft 5w30 in my civic.
it made it sound rattly, so bad i was wondering if the engine was
shot, and this was compounded by the oil seals leaking lke crazy. and i
mean crazy. at stop lights, clouds of smoke were coming up out from
under the hood where the main seal was leaking onto the exhaust.
castrol gtx quieted up the engine so it sounds "normal" and the leak has
subsided almost completely. doesn't drip on the driveway any more.

neither may of be particular concern on your new vehicle, but any oil
that behaves like that on an older engine does not bode well for your
future.

 

I don't know anything about the Motorcraft 5w30 but I think it is an
entirely different pack than the 5w20. In fact, I do not believe the
5w30 is even a synthetic blend, but rather a plain dino oil. Used oil
analysis reports maintained on the Bobistheoilguy.com site show the
Motorcraft 5w20 to be a terrific engine lubricant.

However, what you intimate is true in that different cars react
differently to driving styles and type of oil used. That is why the $40
spent for a lab analysis of your used oil is money well spent. Of
course in your case no report was necessary, the problem was obvious.
In most cases it is not that noticeable.

MARTY

 

well, when i looked at both bottles in the store, the "info" on the
bottles was the same. besides, what exactly is "synthetic blend"?
there's no recognized definition. other than being a great advertising
tool of course.

really? i've just looked, but in the couple of minutes i spent poking
about, i don't see it. please post a link so i can read that report too.

 

Jim, I double checked the Virgin Oil analysis reports at BITOG site and
the 5w20 and the new 5w30 are indeed both synthetic blends. I don't
think this was always the case however and the 5w30 you had such bad
results from may have been the older, straight dino stock - it all
depends when you bought it. Here is a quote from BITOG and the source
is probably Ford but I'm not sure about that:

"This new oil (5w20) has been designed to provide the durability,
cleanliness, and fuel economy expected of a Motorcraft product. Tests
show it outperforms our own SAE 5w30 Super Premium Motor Oil. This oil
has been thoroughly evaluated by Ford. It has performed flawlessly in
over 300 dynamometer durability tests and has undergone vehicle testing,
reaching as high as 250,000 miles in some cases. This is an oil you can
trust. This new oil truly "exceeds the need". Refer to Owners Manual
to determine which vehicles should be serviced with 5w20. Refer to TSB
01-4-7 for a listing of older vehicles which should be serviced with
this oil".

Since then, it appears Motorcraft has introduced their 5w30 as a
synthetic blend as well, however, a look at the Virgin Oil reports for
both shows that they are a little different in their additive packs,
most notably in factors such as zinc, iron and copper although moly
content is nearly the same.

Synthetic blends such as these and others from the Phillips stall
(TropArtic 5w30 and Kendall) are hard to define, as you point out, since
there is no exact measure as to how much dino and how much synthetic
must be in the mix before it qualifies as a "blend". Mobil Clean 7500
is rumored to contain a third synthetic but Mobil always keeps their
formulas close to the vest.

I agree too that "blend" is a marketing tool but they are suppose to
provide longer oil change intervals than straight dino which usually
shows wear at, and should not exceed, about 5000 miles in normal driving
conditions. Full synthetics are said to be able to go 10,000 miles so
somewhere in between seems to make sense for the "blends". They are
usually priced "in between" dino and full synthetic as well.

If you go to the BIOTG site and click on the forums you will find many
different forum links, including Virgin Oil Analysis and Used Oil
Analysis as well as general lubrication and gasoline engine oil forums.
Try doing a search of "Motorcraft 5w20" at any of these and there will
be many threads listed where you can read reviews of analysis reports
and general comments about the Motorcraft oil (there are even some in
which it was used in Honda engines). You will find that, like any oil,
some are good and some not so good but, along with Havoline straight
dino 5w20, you will see that most of the oil geeks there consider it
among the best.

MARTY

 

Consider: ALL motor oil sold today is a synthetic blend.

There is NO "straight dino oil" being sold for automotive use.

ALL oils have (drum roll, please) synthetic compounds blended
in--commonly known as the "additive package".

So technically, every oil can advertise itself as a "synthetic blend".

You've been owned.

 

mine was definitely "synthetic blend". i still have a bottle i'm going
to throw into recycling.

the "TSB" makes it sound like ford propaganda to me!

those are all fine solid state additives, but they do nothing for
thixotropy [the property that affects grade with temperature - otherwise
known as viscosity index improver] or seal conditioning. the thixotropy
thing is very important because either insufficient quantity or quality
can quickly break down leaving you with thin runny base that may not be
able to sustain the right hydro-dynamic film engines depend on. [if i
really wanted to be contrarian, i'd even ask why it's even worth
bothering with solid state lubes, moly, etc., if the hydrodynamic film
is being sufficiently sustained - but i'm not a tribologist.] and
simply measuring viscosity alone is not necessarily the answer because
it's usually measured at 100C whereas pistons & rings operate at higher
temps than that, and that soot/combustion product can increase viscosity
while decreasing lubricity. i think this was the situation i
experienced - and the reason the engine sounded like it was about to
fall apart - the oil film needs to be right because it keeps parts
"floating" on oil, not directly touching. regarding seal conditioning,
same thing, you need sufficient quantity & quality of the right organic
conditioners to do the job.

now, here's the rub regarding traditional oil analysis - it won't show
you /any/ info on these organic additives!!! the relevant compounds for
both those jobs are not metallics so they don't show on the spark
spectrometry or acid/base reading! oil analysis is an /excellent/ tool
for assessing wear product and therefore engine health, but from what i
can see, without the ability to detect or quantify organic contents,
it's next to useless as a measure of initial oil quality.

when mobil 1 first came out, didn't they claim 30k between changes? to
back away from that as mobil have done, it means that either
1. their initial claims were bogus
2. they're now scared of law suits
3. they've changed formulation, or
4. like everyone else, the bean counters are interested in sales volume,
so forget the facts!

thanks marty! i may try havoline next time. but for the moment, i'm
happy with castrol gtx. especially on the crude & unscientific basis of
keeping my engine quiet & leak free!