2002 Honda Odyssey Side View Mirror Switch Failure

LOL... touche!

i had a VW rabbit, and a trusted watercooled VW only mechanic. he did my
engine rebuild, and i had to upsell *him* on doing things, like new CV
joints, etc.

since the engine was out, i wanted new CV joints, motor mounts, etc.

of course, he just charged me for the parts... labor was included in the
rebuild/reassembly. couple hundred more, but cheaper than doing it at a
later time.

most dealers ARE out to "get you". they dont care about dealership
loyalty, repeat business, etc.

i wonder how the service dept at the online dealers like majestic are.
the parts depts are willing to cut a deal, and just judging from the
people here (me included), they get lots of repeat business.

 

LOL... touche!

i had a VW rabbit, and a trusted watercooled VW only mechanic. he did my
engine rebuild, and i had to upsell *him* on doing things, like new CV
joints, etc.

since the engine was out, i wanted new CV joints, motor mounts, etc.

of course, he just charged me for the parts... labor was included in the
rebuild/reassembly. couple hundred more, but cheaper than doing it at a
later time.

most dealers ARE out to "get you". they dont care about dealership
loyalty, repeat business, etc.

i wonder how the service dept at the online dealers like majestic are.
the parts depts are willing to cut a deal, and just judging from the
people here (me included), they get lots of repeat business.

 

"You work for a Honda service department somewhere don't you?
Here's my take socket head:"

Being around cars all my life, I'll take that as a compliment. But no, I
don't work for a Honda service department. Contrary to most small brained
car owners who think the dealer is only out there to rip him off, I have
great respect for any technician who has the expertise to do the a repair
correectly. Whether he works in a dealer or an independent shop. And if you
actually looked before you leaped you'd have seen my previous posts DO
suggest any brand specialist or shop that advertises as a particular brand
specialist and is recommended by his customers for expertise on the
particular brand. I respect the technician who has amassed thousands, or
tens of thousands or perhaps hundreds of thousands of dollars in support of
their business. Whether they are are indepent Honda, Toyota or Chevy repair
shops or a franchised dealer. They deserve a return on their investment up
to a limit.
What do you do in life? Are you a plumber? Are you a doctor? Do you charge
less because the toilet went in quicker so you'll lower the agreed on price
you made with your customer? Or the last patient was out of the examining
room 10 minutes faster than the last patient. Do you charge less for your
jobs because you've become proficient at what you do?
Get real! An independent may charge less per hour,.but any busnessman goes
by an industry standard. That standard is a Chilton or Motor manual. If a
shop can charge less per hour and still do the job with expertise and
satisfy his customer, then he is the successful one. You, as the customer,
have the freedom to choose any dealer, technician, greasemonkey or
shade-tree mechanic you want.

"When you tell me you've done all of the "work" to my car but won't
produce the old parts, I'll start believing you're honest."
Did you ask up front for the old parts? If you did, and they didn't have
them then don't pay. Does your independent ASE tech do that for you? Why,
you don't trust him either?

"When you stop trying to up sell me on maintenance I "need" for my car,
I'll stop asking for free anything."
If your vehicle is due for a particular maintenance that you didn't ask for,
it's their duty to inform you. If they failed to tell you, would you be the
first to complain that the dealer or technician/mechanic/ greasemonkey
failed to tell you if you suffered a failure because it wasn't noticed.
They are in a business. It's their job to sell., providing of course it IS
needed. If it's not needed, shame on you for buying. Did you ever hear of
Caveat Emptor? Perhaps that's a little foreign to you!
Why do you think you desrve something free? When you go to your supermarket,
where you spend more than on your car, do you ask them for free eggs? milk?
They make you walk all the way to the back of the store for your basic
foods. Don't you think there's a little "upselling" going on there? Haven't
you stopped by the fancy display and bought those delicious chocolate
cookies, because they're on sale, or you were hungry. Do you complain about
that?

"When you stop charging me 4.0 hours of labor charges for work that takes
you 1.5 hours because it's "in the
book," I'll stop complaining."
I would have quit going back after the first time that happened. But if you
aren't smart enough to change dealers or go to an indepedent shop after you
felt you've been overcharged or abused more than once, I can understand your
frustration with some common sense.

That's just my 2 cents. You're entitled to yours too.

P.S. I hope I haven't burned out any text editors.

 

"You work for a Honda service department somewhere don't you?
Here's my take socket head:"

Being around cars all my life, I'll take that as a compliment. But no, I
don't work for a Honda service department. Contrary to most small brained
car owners who think the dealer is only out there to rip him off, I have
great respect for any technician who has the expertise to do the a repair
correectly. Whether he works in a dealer or an independent shop. And if you
actually looked before you leaped you'd have seen my previous posts DO
suggest any brand specialist or shop that advertises as a particular brand
specialist and is recommended by his customers for expertise on the
particular brand. I respect the technician who has amassed thousands, or
tens of thousands or perhaps hundreds of thousands of dollars in support of
their business. Whether they are are indepent Honda, Toyota or Chevy repair
shops or a franchised dealer. They deserve a return on their investment up
to a limit.
What do you do in life? Are you a plumber? Are you a doctor? Do you charge
less because the toilet went in quicker so you'll lower the agreed on price
you made with your customer? Or the last patient was out of the examining
room 10 minutes faster than the last patient. Do you charge less for your
jobs because you've become proficient at what you do?
Get real! An independent may charge less per hour,.but any busnessman goes
by an industry standard. That standard is a Chilton or Motor manual. If a
shop can charge less per hour and still do the job with expertise and
satisfy his customer, then he is the successful one. You, as the customer,
have the freedom to choose any dealer, technician, greasemonkey or
shade-tree mechanic you want.

"When you tell me you've done all of the "work" to my car but won't
produce the old parts, I'll start believing you're honest."
Did you ask up front for the old parts? If you did, and they didn't have
them then don't pay. Does your independent ASE tech do that for you? Why,
you don't trust him either?

"When you stop trying to up sell me on maintenance I "need" for my car,
I'll stop asking for free anything."
If your vehicle is due for a particular maintenance that you didn't ask for,
it's their duty to inform you. If they failed to tell you, would you be the
first to complain that the dealer or technician/mechanic/ greasemonkey
failed to tell you if you suffered a failure because it wasn't noticed.
They are in a business. It's their job to sell., providing of course it IS
needed. If it's not needed, shame on you for buying. Did you ever hear of
Caveat Emptor? Perhaps that's a little foreign to you!
Why do you think you desrve something free? When you go to your supermarket,
where you spend more than on your car, do you ask them for free eggs? milk?
They make you walk all the way to the back of the store for your basic
foods. Don't you think there's a little "upselling" going on there? Haven't
you stopped by the fancy display and bought those delicious chocolate
cookies, because they're on sale, or you were hungry. Do you complain about
that?

"When you stop charging me 4.0 hours of labor charges for work that takes
you 1.5 hours because it's "in the
book," I'll stop complaining."
I would have quit going back after the first time that happened. But if you
aren't smart enough to change dealers or go to an indepedent shop after you
felt you've been overcharged or abused more than once, I can understand your
frustration with some common sense.

That's just my 2 cents. You're entitled to yours too.

P.S. I hope I haven't burned out any text editors.

 

A *good* tech might be able to do it under the book time. A *bad* tech
will do it over the book time.

You can pay a flat rate and be protected from bad techs, or you can pay
the real time rate and take the chance that you get some bozo who
doesn't know one end of the wrench from another. The guy next to you
might get a timing belt done for $150 labor, while you pay $750 because
the guy was slow. Is that how you'd rather do it? No.

The ONLY way a dealership has of controlling that on a fair basis is the
book rate.

 

A *good* tech might be able to do it under the book time. A *bad* tech
will do it over the book time.

You can pay a flat rate and be protected from bad techs, or you can pay
the real time rate and take the chance that you get some bozo who
doesn't know one end of the wrench from another. The guy next to you
might get a timing belt done for $150 labor, while you pay $750 because
the guy was slow. Is that how you'd rather do it? No.

The ONLY way a dealership has of controlling that on a fair basis is the
book rate.

 

It's all about the value of the work to the customer. It has nothing to
do with how long the job took to do.

 

It's all about the value of the work to the customer. It has nothing to
do with how long the job took to do.

 

Do you think that by clipping the intelligent response, you'll make
people think that there wasn't one?[/QUOTE]

Um, no, not at all.

Yes, there is--and I am well aware of it. Aware enough to know to trim
quotes and quote only what I'm responding to.

 

"since the engine was out, i wanted new CV joints, motor mounts, etc.
of course, he just charged me for the parts... labor was included in the
rebuild/reassembly. couple hundred more, but cheaper than doing it at a
later time."

"most dealers ARE out to "get you". they dont care about dealership
loyalty, repeat business, etc."


Why do you think he did you a favor? Weren't your axles already removed
when he pulled your motor? If that's the case, what would be the difference
in labor to put back old or new axles?

Do you think the dealer or any business would be able to stay in business
very long if they were out to "get you "?
Think about it. What are the some of the oldest businesses in your town. How
long have some the well known dealers or successful repair shops been there?
To exist in any business you must take care of your customer.

Howard

 

"since the engine was out, i wanted new CV joints, motor mounts, etc.
of course, he just charged me for the parts... labor was included in the
rebuild/reassembly. couple hundred more, but cheaper than doing it at a
later time."

"most dealers ARE out to "get you". they dont care about dealership
loyalty, repeat business, etc."


Why do you think he did you a favor? Weren't your axles already removed
when he pulled your motor? If that's the case, what would be the difference
in labor to put back old or new axles?

Do you think the dealer or any business would be able to stay in business
very long if they were out to "get you "?
Think about it. What are the some of the oldest businesses in your town. How
long have some the well known dealers or successful repair shops been there?
To exist in any business you must take care of your customer.

Howard

 

as do the independants... the really good ones having worked for a
dealer for a while. lots of schooling and training involved.

depends on what it is. oil changes are crucial. lubing the hinges isnt.
what gets me is all the added bullshit, which is why i stay away from
dealers. i dont want to pay $300 for a spark plug and air filter change,
that also includes "visual inspections" and oiling the door hinges...

but hey- a lot of em sit on prime real estate and have VERY nice
buildings. takes money to pay for all that.

they sell whats easy.

 

as do the independants... the really good ones having worked for a
dealer for a while. lots of schooling and training involved.

depends on what it is. oil changes are crucial. lubing the hinges isnt.
what gets me is all the added bullshit, which is why i stay away from
dealers. i dont want to pay $300 for a spark plug and air filter change,
that also includes "visual inspections" and oiling the door hinges...

but hey- a lot of em sit on prime real estate and have VERY nice
buildings. takes money to pay for all that.

they sell whats easy.

 

none at all... and he didnt even bring up the idea of replacing that
stuff... *I* did.

sure! throw enough commercials on the air, have a dealership at an "auto
mall", and you can do what you want, pretty much.

toyota of cerritos was forced to shut down for a weekend as punishment
for fraud. dunno if that was an FTC case, or what... but theyre still
around, doing booming business, and still shafting people.

once you got their money, **** em.

 

none at all... and he didnt even bring up the idea of replacing that
stuff... *I* did.

sure! throw enough commercials on the air, have a dealership at an "auto
mall", and you can do what you want, pretty much.

toyota of cerritos was forced to shut down for a weekend as punishment
for fraud. dunno if that was an FTC case, or what... but theyre still
around, doing booming business, and still shafting people.

once you got their money, **** em.

 

I disagree with this; I think most dealers are out to make a profit,
sure. If they don't, they aren't in business long. And of course we
*all* know stories about dealers who are simply ripping customers off.
But I don't think this is 'most' dealers.

Not having been to most dealerships, this is just my unsupported opinion.

I wonder why you bother to use periods and commas, but not other aspects
of written communication. How do you decide which ones to use and which
to leave out?


RFT!!!
Dave Kelsen

 

I disagree with this; I think most dealers are out to make a profit,
sure. If they don't, they aren't in business long. And of course we
*all* know stories about dealers who are simply ripping customers off.
But I don't think this is 'most' dealers.

Not having been to most dealerships, this is just my unsupported opinion.

I wonder why you bother to use periods and commas, but not other aspects
of written communication. How do you decide which ones to use and which
to leave out?


RFT!!!
Dave Kelsen

 

I agree.

OTOH, because so many customers are too lazy to learn anything about engines and
motors, they're a captive audience. So why not force them to pay for the
expertise they're getting?

Like medical doctors.

Seriously.

Having worked for the service department of one dealership and done some
business with several others, I think their main goal is to profit from the
ignorance of their customers.

Just like medical doctors.

I will say that the culture in parts departments is a little different. Those
guys will offer little tips (it's part of this charm thing they have going),
many of which have value, about repairs. In addition, they'll try to be
competitive with their prices. Many a time people here report taking Majestic's
prices (printed out) to a parts person and the guy will match the price.

I was hoping we might get some clarification re Majestic. Do Majestic's people
bargain a little if pushed?

Call me a chum, but their prices are usually way better than dealers' and often
competitive with other online companies. I don't want them to go out of business
like www.hparts.com (though the hparts site now says it's "under construction").
Hparts.com was recommended here at the newsgroup by many for years. I used them
at least once.

At least, I don't want Majestic to go out of business until more sites have the
great parts drawings.

 

I agree.

OTOH, because so many customers are too lazy to learn anything about engines and
motors, they're a captive audience. So why not force them to pay for the
expertise they're getting?

Like medical doctors.

Seriously.

Having worked for the service department of one dealership and done some
business with several others, I think their main goal is to profit from the
ignorance of their customers.

Just like medical doctors.

I will say that the culture in parts departments is a little different. Those
guys will offer little tips (it's part of this charm thing they have going),
many of which have value, about repairs. In addition, they'll try to be
competitive with their prices. Many a time people here report taking Majestic's
prices (printed out) to a parts person and the guy will match the price.

I was hoping we might get some clarification re Majestic. Do Majestic's people
bargain a little if pushed?

Call me a chum, but their prices are usually way better than dealers' and often
competitive with other online companies. I don't want them to go out of business
like www.hparts.com (though the hparts site now says it's "under construction").
Hparts.com was recommended here at the newsgroup by many for years. I used them
at least once.

At least, I don't want Majestic to go out of business until more sites have the
great parts drawings.

 

not that i know of. but i order from them knowing that im getting a
better price than my dealer. more dealers should be like them!