2004 Accord, 4-cyl -- Adjustable Valves?

One of the item on the dealer's 60k maintenance list is:

Adjust Intake/Exhaust Valves, Replace Valve Cover Gasket

My question to the group is: how involved is this procedure? How do you
adjust valves on this engine? Are they really adjustable? I am not a
mechanic, but I have heard about such thing as hydraulic lifters, which do
not need adjusting - can you fill me in, please ?


On a little different subject - on the same dealer's list there are items
like "Lubrication Package" (part of the "minor maintenance service")
and "Clean/Lubricate Throttle Linkage (If appl)" (this item is a part of
the 60k/120k maintenance). What is in this car requiring lubrication?
Doors and hood hinges? Or some suspension parts? And how do you
lubricate throttle linkage? Are they talking about squirting some WD40
into my throttle cable or disassembling intake and cleaning the butterfly?

 

http://www.autozone.com/shopping/repairGuide.htm?pageId=0900c15280027e16

60k miles is reasonable, per online maintenance schedules.

 

It is not difficult, but if you are not mechanical and have never done this
before, and assuming your car actually needs it, it would be better to have
a pro do it.

The first thing you need to do is look at the 60k maintenance schedule that
came with your car, not the generic one at the dealer. If your specific car
has adjustable lifters, it will be on your list, along with a time/mileage
when you should be adjusting them.

This stuff is pretty much all fluff that is designed to liberate your cash
from your wallet. If you are not experiencing any drivability problems,
rough idle, etc., you don't need any of it. Just have them do what it says
in the service schedule that came with your car. If the doors squeak, get a
spray can of silicone lube and give the hinges a shot.

 

Your car, like all Hondas I know of, has mechanical lifters, which must be
inspected and adjusted if necessary at regular intervals (specified as
every 25K miles in your case).

This is indicated in your Owner's Manual.

Most of the stuff listed seems to be there as a justification for whatever
they're charging for that service.

Door and hood/trunk hinges need to be squirted with white grease at every
service, which takes about a minute to do.

The throttle body should be cleaned (properly!) once a year.

Never put any lubricant on the throttle cable assembly!

Suspension parts do not need (and cannot accept) lubrication service.

For the REAL 60K service, consult the Maintenance Schedule in your Owner's
Manual. The Owner's Manual's schedule is what /Honda/ wants you to do. The
dealer is NOT Honda.

 

Sounds easy! Thanks for the link, Elle.

p.s. how is you new old civic doing? ;-)

 

Yes, yes, owners manual is in the car and I am not driving the car now...
I will get the car this weekend to play with, just wanted to prepare in
advance.

Can you do me a favor and check if there is anything about
replacing the brake fluid @ 60k miles? It was on the dealer's list, too.
Together with replacing antifreeze, transmission fluid
But... nothing about the cabin filter! I guess it is not included in 60k
maint.

Thanks!

I have one more concern - I have got a "honda care" extended warranty on
this car for up to 100k miles. How will this be affected (taking from your
experience) in regards to any possible future claims that I do the
maintenance myself as an owner and not let the dealer do it? I can keep the
invoice from the store where I purchase, let's say 4 oil filters, 2 valve
cover gaskets and X quarts of ATF & engine oil but since doing this service
myself I will have no proof the service was really done other than receipt
for purchasing parts for the job...

I keep forgeting they are not HONDA... maybe these big blue banner on their
building is too misleading ;-)

 

Well, I admit, I have never done it - that is why I ask what is involved
there...
Am I "mechanical"? I think I am... I am doing more and more car stuff
myself.
I think it came a time to purchase a factory repair manual for my honda

Nicely worded

 

Welcome. This job requires some patience but otherwise yes,
it is pretty easy. Awhile back Tegger gave me some good tips
on using the feeler gages to get to spec. Some of the older
manuals at the UK site have drawings that help explain where
to insert the feeler gage.

I confess I have only done my 91 Civic's valves once in its
entire, 17 year, 205k mile life. I barely changed any of the
valves' lash.

Excellent, thanks. Remember I bought the 93 Civic as a
hobby-project car as much as to assist a friend. I saw a
touch of the red dust of death in the distributor cap a few
weeks ago and enjoyed learning about and overhauling the
dizzy housing, documented with photos and drawings at
http://honda.lioness.googlepages.com/distributorbearing .

 

Brake fluid replacement is specified every three years regardless of
mileage.

The Honda manual is surely assuming you have Honda-branded fluid in
there. If it's aftermarket, changes should be even more frequent.

In addition, regular fluid changes make sure your bleed nipples will
never seize, and, if the pedal-push method of bleeding is used, the
master cylinder bore is kept free of deposits.

It's a good idea to replace those every two years or more. With OEM, of
course. Genuine Honda antifreeze can be left in for five years in a
pinch, but the transmission fluid should be treated sort of like a long-
life engine oil.

No mention of that. Weird. It's amazing how much crud can build up on
the upstream side of that filter, too.

Keep your receipts, follow the HONDA maintenance schedule, maintain a
good relationship with your dealer, and you'll find warranty claims to
be a lot easier to deal with. And that's even if you ignored the
dealer's attempts at upselling, which he KNOWS you don't have to follow.

But the MORE maintenance you do the better, both for you and your car.

If you're planning on keeping the car well over ten years, do all
maintenance twice (or three or four times) as often as the Honda
"regular" schedule says. If you just want to get eight or ten out of it
then sell, do just what Honda recommends and no more.

It is indeed. But in fact all they have is a franchise, which buys them
certain privileges from Honda (such as being allowed to fly Honda
colors...). Other than that, they're totally on their own.

 

Hondas seem to stay in adjustment more than any car I have ever owned --
i.e. British sports cars of the 60s.. and even the old DOHC I6 jags which
were a real challenge because it involved removing the cams to the get the
shims. I can describe that nightmare still to this day. And you better have
a micrometer screw guage!! The old Honda CL77 (305cc) and 350 cc and even
the later 4 banger 750motorcycles required adjustment with some frequency
and were fairly simple. As were the old Datsun 240s SOHC... which required a
crows foot (think 14mm). But, removing the valve covers in those olders and
working the adjustment was a relatively quick affair when compared with
todays cluttered engines that demand the professional mechanic. I won't
even consider my wife's Pilot or my 06 Accord.

 

if it's not vtec, it's very straightforward. if it is vtec, you may
need an air tool to activate the valve gear.

hydraulic lifters are used on p.o.s. cars that use soft crummy
componentry that wears quickly - it's the only way to accommodate the
high wear rate.

 

Can accord 2004 have anything else than a VTEC engine?

Apparently it is a very good way because my 95 toyota camry with 246k miles
did not require adjustment yet. It must be made with very soft and very
crummy componentry and that is why it is so reliable for so many years with
no trouble.

I love people adding philosophy like that to the old fashioned design
requiring costly dicking with the manual adjustments ))
Personally I was surprised to find honda using this design in a modern car.
Aparently it has to have some benefits, at least to them if not to the car
owner forced to pay for this service done every 25k miles...
So I wonder now, what is the benefit of having to adjust valves every other
year compared to hydraulic lifters?

 

I think your Camry has a non-hydraulic design with shims atop the valve
bucket. The cam and the valve would be in direct contact via the valve
bucket. There would not be the nut-and-screw-and-lifter assembly that the
Honda has between cam and valve.

Mechanical lifters are more forgiving of neglected oil changes.

 

Yes, it is shim system - I was wrong about hydraulic lifters.
Now I think it should be due for a service then after 246 miles

I guess, we can count it as a benefit... thanks.

 

Toyota's clearances for their system are extremely loose compared to those
for our Hondas, so chances are yours are still within spec even now.

Howver, they ought to be checked anyway after that kind of mileage. Better
check than risk a burnt exhaust valve.

I'd say so.

The primary justifications for hydraulic lifters are reduced valvetrain
noise and reduced maintenance requirements (no valve adjustments).

 

mechanicals are also lighter and therefore operate at higher rpm's -
also something relevant to hondas more than toyotas.

 

Toyota's mechanical design is even lighter than that used by Honda; the
entire lifter/adjuster assembly is eliminated.

 

Yes, they supposed to be checked every 60k miles according to maintenance
schedule.

Sounds ok. Thanks.

 

Sure, besides the wear and tear on springs and lobes, the valve seats
wear from repeated closings of the valves. I recall reading that noisy
valve (loose clearance) is less of a problem on (at least some) Hondas
than burnt valve (tight clearance) because of this.

And burnt valve problems are silent. So do check the clearances to
make sure they are in spec.

Now what's the advantage of the adjuster type design Honda used
instead of the 1960s Italian shim-over-bucket that VW also licensed
back then?

Recessed springs/raised springs a factor? etc etc?

 

wrote in

The was a brief run of CR-V heads around 1998 that had a problem with valve
seat recession. No other Honda models suffers from this. It's those CR-V's
that require loose valve clearances.

That's a very good question, and I don't know the answer.

Toyota had been migrating their OHC engines to the shim-and-bucket design
since the early '80s, while Honda has retained the traditional design.