2004 Accord Gas Tank issue

I'm confused about what it is you don't get about this being a problem.
Having a completely full tank IS A PROBLEM. As the gas heats up it
will expand. If there's no room in the gas tank, it will put pressure
on the whole fuel system, and can potentially cause big problems.

That 2.8 gallons of wasted space is there for a reason. You are
defeating some serious safety features that are there for a reason.

 

O.k. I tried following the thread but I still don't understand: what does
the gas gauge needle show after you start up after filling? Is it full or
not?

 

"Brian" wrote

The problem is that if the gas tank is spec'd at 17.1 gallons, and in fact
really only holds 14.3, the distance one can drive before having to refill
is compromised. If all this is true, the spec is misleading.

 

I think this whole business about gas tanks has gotten out of hand. They
took what was basically a can of gas, put an uncooled fuel pump in it and
told you not to ever use the last quarter tank or the pump will fry, then,
flushed with that engineering coup, they attached a can of charcoal to the
top of it and warn you not to ever actually fill the tank because gas might
get into this other can and mess it up somehow.

So, out of a 17 gallon tank, you lose three gallons at the bottom and three
gallons at the top. That leaves 11 you can actually use. Isn't there some
sort of truth-in-advertising law violated by this?

 

I've pumped in 13 gallons before and the gauge wasn't even to the empty mark
so it's an exagerration to say there are only 11 usable gallons. Honda
doesn't advertise a 17 gallon tank, they only list it as a specification.
And they also don't make any range claims, only mpg. If the actual volume
of the tank is 17 gallons that is probably what they should list as the
spec. They aren't claiming you will have exactly 17 gallons to use before
you run it dry and wreck the pump. The also don't claim that you can stuff
exactly 17 gallons in there and not have it expand as it warms up and wreck
the vapor canister.

 

The tank really does hold 17 gallons. If the spec confuses you, then ignore
it. Look at the gauge instead; when it gets near that red mark or the
yellow warning light comes on, that means it is time to fill up.

 

"K5" wrote

Thanks. I don't like to let the tank go down below 1/4. When the needle is
at the 1/4 mark (which is when I get 'concerned') I fill it up. At that
point I "manage" to squeeze about 11.5 gallons in; I guess I am guilty of
"topping off"; thanks for the warnings. I have yet to let the tank go so
low as to see the yellow indicator.

 

the tank may be speced at 17.1, but that doesnt include the filler neck.

 

Ok, about the fuel guage. When the yellow light came on it was just
bare hint about the empty red line. When it cuts off at 13.5 gallons
the guage reads just over the full red line. When totally filling up
the tank it reads even higher above the full red line.

And again, I do know about the safety hazards. I don't just top off
and then let is just sit. I'm immediately on the freeway and within
10 minutes I've used a third of a gallon... shouldn't be that much of
a hazard.

So, what I'd like to hear is that other Accord owners see the same
issue and would like to join my complaint to Honda Corp. They
advertise 17.1 gallon tank and it's really only 13.5 usable gallons.
And, it also gives owners a false since of security. If they fill up
and only put in 13.5 gallons then they think that their reserve is 3.6
gallons when their reserve is really about 1 gallon and 2.6 gallons of
AIR... How many folks are running out of gas and then only filling
up with about 14.5 gallons and think what the f... ??

RonR

 

To add a bit of math to this discussion...

The rule of thumb for gasoline expansion is about 0.1 percent increase
in volume for 1 degree F of temperature increase.

So if an underground storage tank is maybe 40 degrees F and the gas in
your gas tank gets up to 140 deg F (you're in Phoenix in the summer)..
Then that's 100 degrees so that would mean a 10 percent increase in
the gasoline's volume. This is probably worse case...

That means that if I stop filling at the 13.5 gallons when the nozzle
cuts off and there is still conservatively 1.5 gallons in reserve that
makes 15 gallons. If it then expands 10 percent it then becomes 16.5
gallons. So if I continue to add another half or so gallon after
first cut off then it should be within the extremes of expansion and
perfectly safe.

Comments ?

Ron R

 

....that calculation should have stated degree "C" and not Fahrenheit.
So it's about 4 deg C (40F) to 60 deg C (140F) would cause about a 5
percent increase in volume... now I'm sure that everyone's confused.

I still contend that Honda is way too conservative !

Ron

 

just... drive... the ... car.

my civic has an 11.something gallon tank, and NO fuel low light. i drive
til its in the red, then fill it. a bit over 300 miles per tank.

 

Ron Richardson wrote:

How do you know how much fuel is left in the tank before you fill it up?
Do you trust the estimate of miles left from the computer?

 

I think your car behaves differently than mine. First, realize that I have only had one fillup in my car. The light came on when the gauge was between an eight and a quarter or so (I'll watch it more closely next time, but you all will have to wait since I don't drive that much). Then the pump cut-off at 13.971 gallons, and the gauge showed about 5 degrees above the full mark. This possibly means I have three gallons left when the light came on.. Al

Ok, about the fuel guage. When the yellow light came on it was just
bare hint about the empty red line. When it cuts off at 13.5 gallons
the guage reads just over the full red line. When totally filling up
the tank it reads even higher above the full red line.

And again, I do know about the safety hazards. I don't just top off
and then let is just sit. I'm immediately on the freeway and within
10 minutes I've used a third of a gallon... shouldn't be that much of
a hazard.

So, what I'd like to hear is that other Accord owners see the same
issue and would like to join my complaint to Honda Corp. They
advertise 17.1 gallon tank and it's really only 13.5 usable gallons.
And, it also gives owners a false since of security. If they fill up
and only put in 13.5 gallons then they think that their reserve is 3.6
gallons when their reserve is really about 1 gallon and 2.6 gallons of
AIR... How many folks are running out of gas and then only filling
up with about 14.5 gallons and think what the f... ??

RonR

 

The problem I see is that you don't yet know for sure what is going on or what other problem your car may have. For example, you might have an unusual weld in the pipe going into your gas tank that is causing your behavior. I would not count on this analysis to insure your safety and the safety of those around you.

It would be nice to hear more data from others about fill-up behavior and low fuel light indicators, and if someone has ever ran out of gas. Basically, the manual does not help answer mine or your questions here. I expect and want Honda to be conservative in their instructions... Al
...that calculation should have stated degree "C" and not Fahrenheit.
So it's about 4 deg C (40F) to 60 deg C (140F) would cause about a 5
percent increase in volume... now I'm sure that everyone's confused.

I still contend that Honda is way too conservative !

Ron

 

Same here ('04 LX V6 coupe). Except, on mine, the value is right about
exactly 3.0 gallons after pump shut-off. At that point, I can visually see
the fuel level in the pipe.

 

BTW: My personal record is around 14.0 gallons after the pump shuts itself
off, 17.0 after topping it off.

 

(Ron Richardson)
wrote

I'm not sure, but I think you've answered a question we've had about our
new Acura TL. It has the same size tank as my husband's Grand Prix, gets
similar gas mileage, but needs filling up a lot more often than the GP
did. I bet this reduced capacity tank you've posted about could be the
culprit. Or, the computer's MPG is lying its ass off! Our next step to
solve the mystery is to calculate miles driven by actual gas used to
determine if the computer is correct.

 

Honda traditionally favors smaller gas tanks. It's a fact of life. I
commute quite a way to work every day, and had to fill my '90 Integra
every 3 days. When I got an I30t, I only had to do it every 4 or 5
days. When I made the decision to get an '04 V6 Accord, I knew that
I'd be filling up more often again. It is a pain in the a*s for
anyone who drives a lot. Particularly so for me, because I favor
specific gas stations, and won't randomly fill up.

Still, I don't think several gallons of air space is normal. I'd have
the dealer check the filler hose for kinks or other problems.

Also, there used to be a fair amount of variation in tank capacity
between identical cars. Maybe that variation has been reduced by more
modern production techniques, but the "point one" in the 17.1
specification is for sure a joke. This tank is probably spec'd for 70
liters, which would make the U.S. spec a mindless mathematical
conversion, with no regard for whether the "point one" is a
significant digit.

JM

 

I'm not sure, but I think you've answered a question we've had about our
new Acura TL. It has the same size tank as my husband's Grand Prix, gets
similar gas mileage, but needs filling up a lot more often than the GP
did. I bet this reduced capacity tank you've posted about could be the
culprit. <<

That would explain the problem I'm having with my new Civic. My old (1982)
Prelude had a 13 gallon tank, so does the Civic. On the same drive, both show
(showed) half a tank of gas left, despite the 25mpg for the Prelude, and the
37mpg I'm getting with the Civic. I thought it was me, now I see it's really
the car and the way the gas tank system is designed.