2004 Honda Civic Hybrid: poor gas mileage

I purchased a 2004 Civic Hybrid CVT from Bellevue of Honda (Washington
state) in September 2003... When I originally got the car I was
getting 45 to 50 MPG for an entire tank of gas (it is only rated at 48
city/47 highway).

Since then the mileage has decreased steadily to its current max of 35
to 37 MPG.

I have taken it in to Honda of Bellevue twice (once at 3000 miles and
now at 5500 miles). The first time they told me it was do to the
additives in the gas and the fact that it had a break-in period of
5000 miles. Now (Feb. 10, 2004) I take it in w/ 5500 miles, and only
getting 35 MPG or 420 miles per fill up, they tell me again it is the
additives and that it takes 10000 miles to break in.

I'm feed up... I want to dump this car and never deal w/ Honda of
Bellevue again!!! My sole purpose in buying this car was to get
better mileage then my Honda Accord for my commute. So my question is
what recourse do I have?

I'm still looking into the Washington state lemon laws. Honda of
Bellevue has told me there is nothing they can do (besides road test
it and see what mileage they are getting (based on a test of putting 2
gallons of gas in, driving it for 30 minutes, and seeing how much is
gone... complete stupidity).

I will be contacting the state attorney general today to file a
complaint against Honda of Bellevue.

And for those that would say it is my driving habits, the road
conditions, the driving conditions, or the fuel additives... I would
use the comparison of my last two cars (1989 Ford Escort and 1995
Honda Accord LX) both of those I never had a problem maintaining the
EPA rated MPG (plus or minus 2 MPG) for either of those cars and I
used the same gas, drove in the same conditions, and the same amount
of traffic and back roads...


I'd appreciate hearing from anyone else with similar complaints or a
history of dealing w/ Honda in these types of cases (especially those
in WA state).

Many thanks in advance,
Roger

 

Why do you believe accurately documenting the mileage is stupid?

 

accurate my ass. who says they arent mashing the gas? how do you know they
arent riding the brake? how do you know they arent speeding? i RARELY trust
dealerships... let alone ones who want to fill it up with 2 gallons and then
run it out to 'test the mileage'. sounds like a cop-out to me and they dont
want to take responsibility.


-agent smith

 

It's obvious that something is wrong and the service guys you've been
dealing with aren't competent or interested enough to solve the problem.

You've got to escalate this and stop dealing with people who are only
empowered to pass the buck and say no to you.

Here are a few things you should do:

Find out what the lemon laws are in Washington and demand the dealership
follow them.

Talk to the Dealership manager and tell him you're going to take legal
action if they don't solve your problem.

Contact Honda of America.

Get a lawyer.

Good luck.

Alex

 

Responsibility for *what*?
Percieved poor mileage?
lol...

For them to fix it, they need to determine that there is a _problem._

Yeesh.
Your lack of helpfull suggestions noted, btw.

 

Some tips I guess:

1. My hybrid didn't start getting really good gas milage till about 8 months
of use (It was around 20k miles at that point). Other wise it was floating
around 40 mpg.

2. Cold weather hurts the milage badly. I find (here in Atlanta) I get -5
mpg when its under 40 degrees. It also won't autostop in cold weather.

Other than that, keep a distinct eye on your real time mpg guage (the bar
under the avg milage display) and attempt to drive where it says it's peak.
Good luck to you.

 

I don't necassary have a problem w/ them test it (what I do have a
problem w/ is there testing methods). There are much better ways to
test mileage.

 

There is obviously a problem when you have mileage that is 15 to 20
MPG different then the documented and advertised ammount.

 

After looking into the WA lemon law I've discovered that this isn't an
issue it covers... WA lemon law only covers issues that are covered by
warranties, and the fuel economy of a vehicle is not covered under any
warranty.

However, it is a Consumer issue.... I have already filed a consumer
complaint w/ the WA State Attorney General's office (and forwarded it
to the Honda dealership). The dealership/Honda manuals have no
documentation to indicate that there is a break in period of either
5000 or 10000 miles.

I am also planning on meeting w/ the manager (dealership or service)
to look into how I was treated and how to resolve the issue. I will
wait to inform Honda of America until I get a written response from
the dealership.

-roger

 

that sucks to hear about your situation, there's definitely something wrong
when you're getting the same mileage a non-hybrid Civic. keep us informed of
any updates, I'd like to see how this gets resolved.

 

Oh.

Odd you wouldn't list a few of them.

 

I still dont understand why you dont want to lend them the car for 30
mins..... I mean the worse they can do is drive it optimally at 55mph on the
highway to reduce the consumption, but if you do that you can always
protest...
I think you just like the drama

 

the percieved savings of a hybrid are nullified by the lesser power,
especially if you run the a/c. if you read the monroney sticker that
came on the window it does not say that it is a definite mileage
guarantee.
lemon laws don't count on mileage ratings, only defects that can't
be fixed. how do they know you don't keep your foot to the floor all
the time?
Chip

 

I don't necassary have a problem w/ them test it (what I do have a

Care to mention a few of these methods? This is not a flame, I really
would like to know.

 

I don't agree with that at all. Comparing my 2003 Hybrid CVT to a
co-worker's LX automatic, I thought his was noisy and underpowered in the
city. He commented that I accelerate much more quickly than he does, and
it seems effortless. The CVT is the reason for a lot of that, but so does
the Hybrid. I wouldn't own a Civic except the Hybrid.

The A/C takes about 4-5%, which winds up being over 2MPG for me.
I don't notice the drop in power with A/C, but I do see the drop in MPG,
especially when it is the defroster that is on in the wintertime, and I'm
not really thinking about an A/C load.

On a weekly long trip, I get 50+ leaving home, and 43 going home. I think
that's driving habits... I'm more casual on the way out. I'm in a hurry to
get home. I can get nearly 50 in a 70-75mph cruise, but just a little lost
speed, and acceleration to catch up knocks it down in a hurry.

I've got 18,000 miles on it now, and I haven't updated this in a while, but
I'm still around 46 overall.
http://www.rahul.net/dold/clarence/Honda_Mileage.htm

I remember that one tank below 40mpg. I was just driving too hard.
I don't drive conservatively. I keep intending to, I just don't.

 

Chip,

No one said that the mileage was a guarantee.

But if gas mileage suddenly drops by 33% that's a good indication that
there's something that needs fixing... especially with a hybrid engine that
has dozens of sophisticated pieces of equipment that have to work together.

While I'm not a mechanic, this pretty clearly sounds like there's an engine
problem that they can't be bothered to track down and fix.

Alex

 

The drop is what's important. If you haven't substantially changed your
driving territory, all city as opposed to highway, or your driving style,
having gottne used to your silky smooth Hybrid, then you should be able to
blame the change on some mechanical effect.

Does the charge level on the battery seem to climb and fall like it used
to? The charge/assist still move the way it used to? Coasting, light
braking?

What about engine RPM? Has the transmission decided that you are
in "S" all the time? My RPM at 60MPH is about 2100. If you are in "S",
the RPM would be higher, and it would never idle-stop, even with the econ
button illuminated.

I find that nominal throttle from a stop on level ground will hold at about
2000 RPM as I accelerate from a stop to 30 mph.

There are probably folk who do legitmately get 30mpg with a Hybrid.
But you used to get more than that. I just made a 250 mile trip with three
adults, a two year old and some luggage. Quite a bit of it was over 70mph,
all level ground. I got an indicated 48 for the trip.

 

Does WA switch over to oxygenated gas in the winter? If so, this could
affect mileage somewhat. If this is the case, it should go back up in
April when they switch back (it's April in NY anyway, IIRC).

 

This brings me to ask: can anyone (with first hand knowledge) tell me
whether hybrids really are that much more complicated (and thus potentially
fault prone)? Or is the design and technology relatively basic and
straightforward. Certainly in other areas, the state-of-the-art in elec
motors and battery technology is very well established (and reliable).

a

 

Well, give the man a prize!! This is one of the best observations
here.

Lemon laws won't help you. Honda only told you what Your Federal
Government's test results were. They don't guarantee them.

Find out when the MTBE or alcohol content goes back down to summer
levels and fill 'er up. If you still have 'poor' mileage, take the
car to another dealer and have them test, test, test. Make an
appointment with the Honda rep if you don't get satisfaction.

By the way, the word on Toyota hybrids is that they're getting about
80% of the EPA mileage. Maybe you're just expecting too much,
greenie.

JM