2005 Honda Civic EX - 555 miles on one tank!

I have about 14,000 miles on my 2005 Honda Civic EX that I purchased in
September 2005. What is strange about this car is that sometimes when
the tank is on empty I can pump about 12 gallons and other times I can
pump around 15 gallons. I know the manual says the tank is 13.2 gallons
but it's true that I can do this. When I am able to pump around 15
gallons, I usually go about 500 miles (555 is my highest) before it's
on empty. When it's around 12 gallons, it's around 400 miles. Very
strange!

 

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Keep in mind that gasoline expands a LOT when warm, and the pump is
supposedly adjusted for that, but don't overfill beyond what the manual
says . . We don't want to see you on the evening news as the "guy who
set the sewer system on fire"

Most interesting question might be: What's your actual _mileage_ working
out to?

'Curly'

 

i think you need to contact your local weights and measures department.

 

That's one reason you're not supposed to report your gas mileage by how
many miles you get per tank.

 

I noticed on some cars i've owned if i park on a decline or incline that
effects the amount i can put into the tank, but never more than a gallon
either way. My 2000 Grand Prix is this way. Parked with the front on the
incline gets me 1 gallon more than the decline

 

The following are the date I filled my gas tank, number of miles driven
since the last fill up, and the number of gallons pumped.

5/03 - 555 miles - 12.5 gallons - 44.4 mpg
4/27 - 508 miles - 14.7 gallons - 34.5 mpg
4/14 - 527 miles - 14.0 gallons - 37.7 mpg
4/07 - 450 miles - 15.5 gallons - 29.0 mpg
3/30 - 480 miles - 12.5 gallons - 38.4 mpg
3/20 - 486 miles - 13.6 gallons - 35.7 mpg

Roland

 

"cinerama" wrote > The following are the date I filled my gas tank, number
of miles driven

It's hard to argue with someone (you) who is doing the pumping and sees the
numbers, but I just can't believe how much gasoline you're putting into your
tank. I had a '97 Civic EX and, when the needle was reading nearly empty, I
could hardly get 10 gallons in.

 

Civic-based cars officially take 50 liters, or about 13 US gallons. About
20% of the actual tank (above 50L) is technically unfillable due to EPA
expansion regulations.

That said, if you were to tilt the car so the filler opening side was
considerably higher than the other side of the car, or if you bounced the
rear suspension while filling, you could theoretically get much more than
50L in there.

Frankly, some of cinerama's fill reports are not credible, and therefore
neither are his mileage figures.

 

id be calling weights and measures. thers no friggin way a car with a
11.9 gallon tank can take 15.5 gallons.

someones getting ripped off, big time.

 

It's a 13.2 gallon tank. I'm not trying to top it off. I stop when it
clicks. I have never had a car that did this before. I once had a 1990
Honda Civic DX and I could never put it more than 11 gallons. I think
it had an 11.9 gas tank.

 

Right you are. The 13.2 size came later.

And by the way, it's a very bad idea to be running the tank down that low
all the time. It's hard on the fuel pump, and greatly increases the amount
of water present in the tank.

 

Like, how much more? (percentage?)
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Don't know. I'd guess it would have to do with the design of the dead
space.

 

I agree if he can establish a pattern of filling station vs. filling station.

In old cars (pre emissions), you often could fill to the "brim" without
ill effects due to most tanks being vented directly to the atmosphere.
That sure ain't so anymore...

JT

 

No, because the EPA hadn't yet mandated the 20% "unfillable space" rule
yet.

My '91 Integra, just as a for-instance, has a sort of Mayan-pyramid
structure bulged out of the tank body towards the right-rear. To fill that
space, you'd have to raise the left side of the car about a foot.

Such pre-evap vehicles as the Triumph TR4/4A/5/6 had their filler necks
situated in the middle of the car, right at the very top of the tank. These
cars could have their tanks filled to the brim.

 

I replaced the tank in my '83 Civic FE project as the car had sat for
over twelve years. The replacement tank (after market I guess) was not
an exact fit and did not have that little flex tube in the filler that
the old one did. I assume that had something to do with venting etc.

At any rate, I do not expect to get the mileage that these cars achieved
in the early 1980's due to the crappy modern gas recipes.

BTW, I appreciate the advice that you and Michael Pardee dispense.
Needless to say, a lot of knowledge regarding older Hondas was gained
working on my project and I have come to appreciate the basic
simplified designs typical of Honda of that genre.

Now, if I can find out why my brakes are dragging... I suspect the
adjustment of travel in the (new replaced) master cylinder is the
culprit. Is the rod from the booster adjustable? I think that the
correction has to come from the booster/cylinder side as opposed to
booster/brake pedal travel side.

Regards,

JT

 

The flex tube is for venting while filling. It is not active once the cap
is back on. The only other "vent" tube that is in your tank is for evap.

I don't know when the EPA started requiring the 20% unfillable space rule.
Also, some tanks met that requirement simply by having the fill hose
positioned low enough on the side of the tank that you couldn't fill it all
the way.

Almost all modern gas recipe modification is driven by EPA edict.

Subject to much less strict regulation. That makes a BIG difference. The
EPA is obsessed with evaporative emissions.

Dragging brakes on a car that old could be either of two things:
1) Flex lines collapsing inside, or
2) Caliper/wheel-cylinder pistons gummed up or rusted.

This assumes you've made sure the basics are OK.

Master cylinder pushod play is easily checked: Push carefully on the pedal
with your fingers. Right at the very top there will be 2-5mm or so of very
light pressure before the pedal hits something hard and needs much more
force to move. That's the freeplay. If it's absent, there may be pressure
on the pushrod with the pedal released, and the brakes may slowly lock on
as you drive and the fluid heats up. They will release again once the fluid
cools off.

 

Heh... You might expand that to guv'ment in general!

The flex lines are the only component (besides the booster) that are
original. I've had this happen on some of my (very) old Studebakers.

Calipers, wheel cylinders and pads/linings are new.

To recap... After getting temporary tags for the car I headed to the
tire shop for new threads as the old tires over fifteen years old and
badly cracked. I drove to the tire place at 25-40 mph without incident.
The distance was about 2 1/2 miles. The first trip under its own power
since 1993.

After the tires were installed, I drove onto the freeway for about two
miles at 65 mph and all seemed ok. I exited the freeway to travel south
on the interstate and noticed an apparent gradual "loss of power" and
turned off at the next exit. When I went to apply the brakes, the loss
of free pedal was evident and now the car could only progress in 2nd or
1st gear and the temperature began to rise. I found a place to park the
car and called a friend so that I could retrieve my truck (from the shop
where I had been working on the Honda) back to his house.

Then we went back to get the Honda. It started right up and I drove to
his house without incident but only at a speed of no more than 35 mph.
The brake pedal had regained it free play and the temperature stayed
within the normal range.

So, as you stated, it boils down to two possibilities:

1. Bad flex lines

and/or

2. rod length adjustment from the booster to the M/C.

BTW, I have been following the thread(s) regarding the vacuum brake
bleeders and used one for this car. But the brakes never achieved a
"solid" feel and remained slightly spongy.

Years ago, I bought my only other Honda, a 1976 CVCC Civic. I loved
that car for its simplicity, reliability and economy but it rotted out
from under me at about 160K miles back in the mid 1980's.

As an aside, I am somewhat concerned about the rising engine
temperature. Should I run the car at operating temperature and bleed
the cooling system via the valve near the water pump?

TIA

JT

 

What is strange about this car is that sometimes when

You should not try to force ALL THE GAS YOU CAN into the tank when you fill
up. Fill it until it clicks off once or twice and stop there (I stop at the
second shut off). That way you will be filling to the same level
consistently each time. That will minimize your measurement error and
result in a more accurate statistic (mpg).

Plus, it is not good for your antipollution system to over fill the tank.

Sid

 

I'm not over filling the tank. I too stop at the second click. Very
strange.

Roland