2008 Honda Civic Ex Maintenance Schedule

No answer, I see.[/QUOTE]

The answer is, it's up to the driver to pay attention to the dash gauges
according to the owner's manual.

What's so hard about that?

 

I understand that, yet remember that its simply an algorhythm that may
increase or decrease the interval slightly is all.

And ...the bottom line is the *actual degredation of the engine oil*, and
there is nothing in a Honda Accord that tests the actual motor oil.

Therefore, the motor oil itself is the main factor...regardless of the
number of cold starts, RPMs above a certain point, etc...[/QUOTE]

When you start with a family sedan (not a race car, not a BMW M3--which,
by the way, has an oil change indicator just like the Honda...) and
specify oil that has a certain industry rating, you know quite a bit
about the degradation of the oil.

You DO know about the industry standards and ratings for motor oil,
don't you? With those in hand, with the specifications in hand, the
engineers can VERY CLOSELY determine the oil condition. In fact, the
oil specifications spell it all out. All Honda has to do is factor in
their engine peculiarities and go from there.

You really need to know more about the outside world before you spout
off.

 

I understand that, yet remember that its simply an algorhythm that may
increase or decrease the interval slightly is all.

And ...the bottom line is the *actual degredation of the engine oil*, and
there is nothing in a Honda Accord that tests the actual motor oil.

Therefore, the motor oil itself is the main factor...regardless of the
number of cold starts, RPMs above a certain point, etc...

That would require having on-board info in a hard drive that knows the
chemical structure, osmolarity, density from the light spectrometer thingy,
etc., of each and every oil,[/QUOTE]

No, it simple means specifying a minimum standard of motor oil--the
specifications of which are published.

What is it nowadays--API SJ?

Read. It's good for you.

 

Super!
Please review your oil change receipts, calculate the average oil
change interval (miles) and post that.

For those not trusting the MM, how's that for a benchmark?

 

no you don't - analysis is when you don't know what the input is - it's
if you're flying blind. [and installing gas chromatography instruments
on a car is a ridiculous concept btw.]

with a modern car, you /know/ what the input is, so analysis would be an
incredible expense for almost no practical benefit.

 

"shelf life" is literal - it doesn't mean "installed in the vehicle".
when used, oils pick up the combustion product from the engine - this
includes acids and other nasties that slowly corrode. if the oil is
clean and unused, sure, you can just let it stand. but if it's been
used, like a vehicle that's low mileage, you still need to change the
oil to remove these contaminants.

 

To update the thread, we do have some reports on when the MM
is calling for an oil change:
Jan 21 JXStern and Elliot Richmond: About every 6k miles,
twice now.
Jan 13 Joe L.: About every 6k miles, twice now.
Aug 5 2007 Santos: About every 6500-6800 miles, four times.
Dec 4 2006 John H.: About every 7k miles.

 

Interesting...thanks for that info!

Peace,
Polfus

 

I anticipated that you would say that, but hoped you had enough brains and
class not to.

Looks like I was wrong.

Woah..wait a damn minute..you just said to forget all that and watch when
the MM lights up.

I am not supposed to know my car..I am just supposed to watch for the little
reminder to come on.

Like a blind mouse...just follow along and hope its right, because if I
"KNOW HIS CAR and MAINTAIN it", then maybe I need to know what mileage Honda
recommends I change the motor oil at? You know, in case the MM fails?

I don't want them to wipe my nose or spoon feed me at all.

I prefer they don't, in fact.

Wild thing really at this point is WHY don't you care about knowing this
information, and why are you 100% trusting of a computer?

Polfus

 

I anticipated that you would say that, but hoped you had enough brains and
class not to.

Looks like I was wrong.[/QUOTE]

Gee, you mean you didn't want me to say what the owner's manual says?
Why not?

 

Woah..wait a damn minute..you just said to forget all that and watch when
the MM lights up.[/QUOTE]

That's what I was talking about. The driver has to pay attention to the
dash lights. That's the driver's part of maintaining it.

Moron.

The computer knows your car far, far better than you do. Pay attention
to the lights. And what if they're not reset? Why, you as the driver
have the responsibility to see that they are reset.

What you DON'T have is the responsibility to know when the oil is used
up. It's not strictly a function of time. Follow the owner's
manual--that is, unless you're a Honda engineer and know something that
Honda isn't publishing.

Are you a Honda engineer who knows something Honda isn't publishing?

What information? You're looking for a time/miles table for when to
change the oil. Why are you 100% trusting in that? Is that regardless
of how you drive the car under whatever conditions?

 

E wrote

I thought the MM does sort of organize things so one can
tell readily whether "Major service" with myriad items is
due, and when a simply oil change is due.

Engineers are as corrupted by the almighty buck as the next
guy. Case in point: The Big Dig (Boston tunnel) collapsed a
few years ago killing a woman. It's pretty clear the
engineers made some poor choices based in economics (= more
profit for their companies).

The Army Corps of Engineers has been under fire since
Hurricane Katrina for accepting levy design. From my
experience, the truth is that to keep one's job in
engineering one had better bring things in ostensibly safe
but also under budget. It was the people as much as anything
that demanded cheap. An ethical engineer with the Army Corps
is in a tough position. His/her only choice is to stick
around and hope to make things a little safer but really not
safe enough. Or leave.

The auto industry has had many engineers who have bowed to
economic demands to keep their jobs. That's pointing a
finger at the engineers, mind you, not the business people.
Sometimes the good fight is worth it. You say, "No. I am not
going to do this." The really intelligent ones discreetly
point out the bad publicity for putting in unsafe
engineering blah blah will cost more than the company stands
to make.

Marketing for selling those cars with a MM, sure. Sales guy
says, "And look at the 2008 model's Maintenance Minder! This
car is a bargain for all that the MM provides!"

Apart from the higher purchase price the MM produces, I
think the MM does likely save money for maintenance.

Does the maintenance savings justify the extra initial
purchase price? Maybe.

Mobil oil did this. Ya think there's a conflict of interest?

Added cost of MM vs. possible lower sales due to higher
price of car.

Will having a rad coolant change feature in the MM justify
the added cost of this feature? Same goes for the other
dozen or so items the MM reports on.

Volume taken by MM vs. using the space for a larger
windshield washer bottle <wink>

Locating Maintenance Minder in XYZ vs. ABC, pros and cons.

MM sensor etc. failure rate cost vs. cost of doing
maintenance prematurely over life of car.

Your tradeoffs are in the same vein.

Point is it's not perfect. Honda estimates it to be an
improvement and of course worth every penny to customers.
;-)

Cost. Space.

Evidently BMW and Mercedes do have an oil chemistry monitor
built into their cars, as Tegger noted recently and as I
just confirmed.

I also see something called an "Intellistick" available for
the wealthy playboy grease monkey to purchase for monitoring
oil chemistry.

$500.

Most folks do indeed have to. Their time is too valuable to
hang out here.

Agreed.

 

That helps a consumer grab a quart of oil designed to fit the performance of
the engine in use.

Still...that does nothing to test the actual condition of the actual motor
oil once it's in the engine.

The API SJ designation is a *minimum* standard that oil must meet, but there
is no additional designation for outstanding or superior oils within the SJ
designation.

And here's something to read, even if it directly or indirectly relates to
this subject:

http://www.infineum.com/information/api-passenger-sj-sl-2004.html

http://www.swri.org/4org/d08/GasTests/home.htm

Polfus

 

That helps a consumer grab a quart of oil designed to fit the performance of
the engine in use.

Still...that does nothing to test the actual condition of the actual motor
oil once it's in the engine.[/QUOTE]

Were you not reading and paying attention?

If the oil starts at a well-known standard, and the engine is built to a
well-known standard, and the engineers tested everything like they did,
then the system is programmed to understand the known effects on the
known oil of known conditions.

This is FAR, FAR better than a simple miles/time chart, which the
original poster wanted--for no reason other than "well, I've always done
it that way".

Yeah? So?

Remember, this is a Honda Accord we're talking about--a family car. And
Honda's engineers are clear that they recommend the same oil change
intervals for space-age billion-dollar-per-quart oil as for Wal-Mart SJ.
They've made their stand, and did so years ago--even when all they
published was a time/miles chart.

So tell me, then, why BMW pioneered this computerized oil change minding
system? You'd think their requirements would be much stricter, and
their owners would use much higher quality oils, right? And why did BMW
do away with the dipstick?

 

And yes, Honda engineers are included in that bunch.

But that particular nasty episode in Honda's history is--well, just
that. History.

 

Yeah, when the MM says to or 1 year, whichever comes first. I know of no
other.

I have no scientific fact, only that logically it makes sense. It has
contaminants eating away at it even if just sitting there.

Got home today at 199,178. I fear the engine will last well beyond the
transmission. It's being an '01 V6-AT having not had any problems (except
for the occasional code (P0980 I think)) it is already on borrowed time.

 

Shelf life value has no meaning when it's in the car. "Shelf Life" = on the
shelf, in a sealed container with no contaminants. Once it's in your motor,
it no longer fits that criteria.

 

Sorry, no receipts. I buy oil at the local CarQuest. A case at a time of
whatever is cheapest that visit. Average interval is about 7+ thousand
between changes.

 

My '01 V6, a tad over 7k per change. But I'm a high mileage driver. My
commute, 3 times a week, is 77 miles each way, very much of it 60+ mph
highway.

 

Which is why I use the cheap stuff. The car and minder system is designed
with the lowest common denominator in mind. So I figure spending anymore
than that is not needed as I would end up changing the better (more
expensive stuff) before it was "fully used up" thus wasting the extra money
I spent on it.