2008 Honda Civic Ex Maintenance Schedule

About "professionals" who compromise to save or to make
money

I think it's the people (all of us) who tolerate mediocrity
to save a buck that is bad.

No idea. You're as handy with google as I.

No. I have a background in this sort of thing. Being old and
so seeing how "X was chosen instead of Y, even though X
offers these advantages. But Y offers these." Life is not
black and white. Real engineering is not black and white.
Countless tradeoffs in every car design.

Yes, I saw your links on the Mercedes system. Those will
help the archives of this newsgroup, AFAIC.

You have two reports on Mercedes' system. One is
http://www.lubereport.com/e_article000146166.cfm, and the
other cites an Q and A from an online forum (I guess). They
contradict each other, with one saying oil chemistry is
monitored to some extent and the other saying not, so I am
not sure what exactly the truth is.

snipping lots, because with all due respect, the newsgroup
needs to be dedicated to everyday problems car owners are
having.

 

Don't know.

But my guess, due to how many miles it goes between indications and the type
of driving that I do, is that it does monitor those things. If it didn't,
and I were say doing lots of short trips (severe driving), 7k between
changes would probably be too long an interval.

 

Scratch that... Elmo is correct according to page 60 of my owners manual.

0-6000 miles, light off
6000-7500 miles, flash for 10 seconds on startup indicating you are due for
service
7500+ miles, remain lit constant (do it now!)

So, if one does "severe" driving, they are best to NOT use the maint light
as an indicator as to when to change the oil as that interval is much
shorter.

In looking real close, I found a printing error in the manual. The "edge"
writing on the page for normal driving (224) is marked "Maintenance Schedule
for Severe Conditions", the same as on page 226 which is indeed the severe
schedule page.

 

Interesting....

Peace,
Polfus

 

I don't imagine its really all that expensive, Elle.

No doubt.

I thought it was interesting.

2 points:

1) The Mercedes Q/A is:

"It also monitors the quality of the oil -particles in suspension and other
factors - and it can judge when the oil has deteriorated to the extent that
it needs to be replaced. Without this kind of comprehensive analysis - in
other words, if you had no way of determining the state of the oil in the
crankcase."

Without direct testing, "you [have] no way of determining the state of the
oil in the crankcase."

and

2) Even Mercedes engineers get it wrong, and their FSS system showed that.

Okay fine...nice talking with you anyway.

Peace,
Polfus

 

Well..if you put it like that, I would have to say I understand what you
mean.

I don't know Elmo....why does anyone put more money into an air filter, or
or rims, or GPS equipment in their car?

Its just more shit to have, I guess.

But if it were free, wouldn't you appreciate it in your Honda?

Not may not be 100% true, but I see what you mean.

I hope you didn't take off your glasses before you read that I am glad for
the MM.

I plan on following it.

Peace,
Polfus

 

I GUARANTEE you Honda has some kind of general guidelines, the same ones
they used to build the algorithm you refer to for the MM. If they had no
general idea, then how the hell did they come up with the MM schedule to
begin with?

You get it?

Your position of that matter is quite clear.

I couldn't say really...have to ask the dealer where they came up with that
if you want the real answer and not a guess.

I don't know what it costs..what do you think it should cost for the 20K
service?

Now I know you're crazy....do I seem like *anyone's* dream?

LOL!

And no....they don't see me unless its something I can't do myself.

Never met or been to the dealer he goes to, so....beats me.

Polfus

 

But he would see no money for oil/filter changes if the dude did them
himself.

Well...theoretically, yes.

Trick question?

I hear you.

Well not everyone can be as smart as you.

But if you were really smart you would have already known this,and not felt
the need to insult the guy's intelligence.

Besides...it doesn't hurt to him to ask for this, especially if all it is,
is for personal info.

Whether or not he follows it remains to be seen.

Polfus

 

But he would see no money for oil/filter changes if the dude did them
himself.[/QUOTE]

But the dude in question would still spend money he doesn't have to
spend. That was my point, which you either couldn't see because you're
so blind, or refused to acknowledge because you're...so blind.

 

I GUARANTEE you Honda has some kind of general guidelines, the same ones
they used to build the algorithm you refer to for the MM.[/QUOTE]

Those aren't "general guidelines". Those are SPECIFIC guidelines.
Since Honda engineers now have a computer which can store quite a bit of
data and algorithms, and can access quite a bit of data about the engine
and its operating conditions, they can program SPECIFIC rules about oil
wear.

Honda's guidelines are, follow our program that's in the computer.
That's all. That's it. That's all that's needed.

And they're saying, "you can't possibly evaluate, on your own, the same
information we're evaluating for you". So, no time/miles general
guidelines.

Only the dealer has such a set of general guidelines, and only because
it makes money for the dealer.

Do you know one reason why BMW went to such a monitor? Because they
service the car for routine maintenance at no charge for 3 or 4 years.
If you follow your own time/miles schedule on a BMW simply because "you
want to," the service writer will give you a weird look and will be
happy to charge you for your oil changes and other routine maintenance
that you "think should be about due" when the MM says otherwise.

It's not just my position.

 

I don't know Elmo....why does anyone put more money into an air filter, or
or rims, or GPS equipment in their car?[/QUOTE]

Because they want to.

But I was asking the question from the standpoint of the Honda engineer.
ROI is nil on spending the bucks to add an oil chemistry monitor.

BMW has one; that's fine. The cost of that was evaluated against the
fact that BMW pays for four years of routine maintenance on their cars.
It made financial sense to them.

 

Because they want to.

But I was asking the question from the standpoint of the Honda engineer.
ROI is nil on spending the bucks to add an oil chemistry monitor.

BMW has one; that's fine. The cost of that was evaluated against the
fact that BMW pays for four years of routine maintenance on their cars.
It made financial sense to them.
[/QUOTE]

they don't have a chemistry monitor [polfus is mistaken] - they [some,
not all] have a spark spectrometer, a comparatively simple device
similar to that used for rudimentary routine oil analysis for fleet
maintenance. as you say, it makes financial sense for bmw for the
reasons you state, and also because they are looking to take the car to
the absolute limit of lubricant life. [and that in itself is another
story.]

btw, are we done with this thread yet? i'm getting bored with wading
through all this childish b.s.

 

Then there's your answer, and you said it yourself.

Polfus

 

Wrong again, loser..."Polfus" never said a word about BMW.

Not one single word about BMW.

Therefore, this shows that you are unable to read with comprehension.

Don't let the door hit you in the ass on the way out.

Polfus

 

You have any mirrors in your house?

Polfus

 

snip

snip

Done?
I'm still waiting from someone to upbraid Honda for omitting an oil
pressure measure from the MM.

 

!

Peace,
Polfus

 

Okay...so I should have said "I GUARANTEE you Honda has some specific
guidelines, the same ones
they used to build the algorithm you refer to for the MM."

That made me chuckle.

I understand, completely, and always have on this point.

Please get it thru your head that I understand this point.

And again, get it thru your thick ass head that I am *glad* I have it in my
car.

Read that again.

I am *not* saying that its not a good thing, nor am I saying in any way,
shape, or form that I don't want it in my car.

MM=good.

X ( good thing ) + Y ( I like it ) = Z ( its all good to me )

Now please type a reply that says you understand this point.

I understand, and again, always have on this point.

There is no need to restate this ever again to me, because I understood it
the first time you said it.

You are so fascinated with this point that you refuse completely to
understand that someone else has a desire or wish for something, regardless
of your judgement of its worth.

As adults, we have that right, and you tread on it everytime you negate
someone's request or desire for info.

Not only that, you insult folks who look for information, and folks who are
doing so to *maintain* and *take care* of their Honda, which is a GOOD
thing.

Or do you disagree with that too?

Yeah....MM should save us money...no doubt....and there are folks who may
still think that they need to change oil more frequently.

Sure, it may be wrong, and erroneous thinking.

What's the point here?

THAT YOU DON'T HAVE THE DAMN RIGHT TO INSULT PEOPLE BECAUSE THEY DON'T
UNDERSTAND.

Read that again, about three or four times untill you UNDERSTAND it, Elmo.

I, for one, want simply one thing, son...and you are NEVER gonna say a word
to convince me otherwise.

I want to know what Honda's specific or general or any other kind of
guidelines that they base their MM on.

Its that simple.

You may think its stupid, and I don't give a good goddamn if you do.

I want to know what it is, regardless.

I will follow the MM because I have no choice, and appreciate it ( the MM )
keeping track of the schedule for me.

But I still want to know what it is.

See above.

You don't know that with 100% certainty, especially if the guidelines are
based on previous Honda recommendations.

You understand that, right?

Or no..still doesn't matter because you have to be right?

That is not the only reason, and your totalitarian world can't accept the
fact that it is perhaps a superior system for determinining oil change
requirements.

Who said anything about one's own time/miles schedule?

I understand, as I have from the start.

Polfus

 

how old are you, post humper?

 

That made me chuckle.

I understand, completely, and always have on this point.

Please get it thru your head that I understand this point.[/QUOTE]

You certainly don't demonstrate that.