88 Accord LX shutting off after warming up

I just bought an 88 Accord LX and once it reaches running temperature
it either starts misfiring severely then stalls or just straight up
stalls. When it dies it's instant, like it just stopped receiving spark
and then it will not start at all unless I let it sit for like an hour.
When the car starts it's instant and idles at about 2200rpm then goes
down to 880rpm in a bit and runs perfectly for a good 5-10 minutes that
is. Only other thing is after it warms up smoke rises up from under the
header intermittenly in large amounts, goes away sometimes if I turn
the A/C on.
Thanks a lot for the help, this is my only car right now so I'm
hitching rides to work and the sooner I figure it out the better.

My thoughts:
Bad igniter or ignition coil
Carb rebuild needed
Choke problem
Main Relay

 

I just finished checking the PCV valve and although it does rattle, the
plunger is soaked
with oil I'm not sure if this is abnormal but it all does seem to be
pointing to a bad PCV valve
especially the intermittent oil smoke. Will replace it tommorow and
update.....

 

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Main relay is VERY doubtful, since it's vibration that keeps a bad main
relay functioning. Bad igniter or ignition coil sound like good
candidates. Did you search this newsgroup for ALL the great posts about
this topic?

Is your coolant reservoir full up?

'Curly'

 

the accord have a control for cold starting that make them run fast to
warm up a cold engine. When, if at all, did you last replace little
things like spark plug wires, distributor cap and plugs. the wires can
do WONDERS for ignition probs.

 

Take the below seriously. Also, use only OEM parts for the
engine ignition parts. They pay for themselves.

Also do the air filter and fuel filter and check the timing.
Just replace the PCV valve. It's cheap enough, and they do
get clogged over time. Replaced my 91 Civic's at 140k miles
or so, and fuel mileage went way up.

Because this seems temperature dependent, I am betting on
the ignition coil for now.

 

My '88 Accord LXi recently developed precisely the same symptoms, which were
immediately resolved by replacing the TW sensor.

 

Thanks for the quick responses, I work second shift so I have little to
no time to work on the car. I spent A LOT of time searching the topics
similiar to this but obviously each one is a little different than what
I'm experiencing. I replaced the PCV valve before work and am going to
try and wake up earlier lol to see if that helped. The guy I got it
from said he recently replaced the spark plugs, wires, cap, and rotor
but it has the original ignition coil so I will replace that tommorow
too.

 

Don't overlook the possibility of severe carbon crud. I saw a severe
case of this on a camry we have , and it will cause the same symtoms.
I think it's probably a bit more critical on FI engines, but can
probably
do it with carbs too. I assume you have a carb, if it's a 88 LX...
If the intake valves get carboned up, it will snowcone around the
valves.
The car will start great when cold, but as it warms up the carbon
expands,
and the car quits due to lack of compression. The valves won't close
all
the way. Let it cool, and it will runs again. For a short while...
The camry we had in three shops, and the third was a dealer. None
of them could find the problem. The yota dealer said it was a bad
wiring
harness, and charged us about $400 for their misdiagnosis. I asked them
if they checked it, and they said, we can't. I had to laugh...
Anyway, I took it home, and checked the harness myself, one wire at a
time. All was good. Why they couldn't do this, I dunno.. Rookies I
guess..
It took me a while, but I finally found out the real problem. SEVERE
CARBON
BUILDUP!!! It took me about a week to get it all cleaned out. I fed it
a mix
of carb cleaner and techron straight into the vac lines. Let it get
good and wet,
and then kill the engine and let it sit. Over and over. It's the
sitting time where
the crud actually melts. This also applies to using techron normally in
the gas
tank.
The only time it's actually doing any good is when you kill the hot
motor
and let it sit. The more often you do that, the faster it will clean it
up.
You can get flush kits if you want to do it real fast. Or take to a
place
that has a motovac machine, etc..
Anyway, if all the usual tests like fuel output, spark, etc, etc turn
up ok,
I'd be eyeballing for carbon crud. BTW, a carboned up engine will
really
show up when under a heavy load. Often they will quit once the carbon
gets good and hot. Also.. The carbon soaks up fuel vapors, and can
cause lean running. Are you plugs white looking? Seem to run real lean?
It can also cause hot spots in the chambers.. The carbon gets glowing
hot. Can cause detonation, pinging, etc.. Even burn a piston in a bad
case..
Carbon will cause all that. Nasty it is..
MK

 

Thanks that info is much useful, as much as I hope it isn't the problem
it sure sounds like it is. I just had it running with the new pcv valve
and I cleaned the warm air flapper in the intake
as it was gummed shut due large amounts of gummy oil, still didn't help
it shut off after about 10 minutes and the coolant hoses were already
too hot to touch. If I remember correctly when I pulled one of the
spark plugs it WAS white too. Only other new thing is I shut the car
off at about 5 minutes of running it and it dieseled a little bit.
Thanks again for the help I WILL figure this out soon, Tanner

 

I worked on it from 7 am to 12 am to no avail in the blistering heat so you can imagine I'm about to give up as I HAVE to get to work I can't be getting rides ar 12am much longer. I checked all the vaccum lines, cleaned the warm air flappper, replaced PCV valve, replaced auxuliary fuel filter, tested choke function, tested fuel cut off relay function and related circuitry, listened to the fuel pump..........IDK. I orderd an ignition coil as I could get a spark plug to work when I pulled it out grounded it and cranked the motor over (after it had stalled).
I Doubt this $45 fix will help it but it's worth a shot, also when goes
to stall if I slam the gas it does nothing.

 

One other thing... When it konks out, does the speed of the starter
get faster, or sound irregular? If carbon expands and keeps the
valves from closing, the loss of compression will usually make the
starter speed/sound change a bit. If you are getting spark, the
present
coil is probably good. With what you describe, I would probably suspect
lack of fuel before lack of spark. But...It could still be carbon.. I
was thinking
you could do a pump volume test, but my book doesn't give a spec for
volume vs time in seconds. They say to test the pressure with a gauge.
The carb version should do 2.4-3.4 psi.
MK

 

I agree with Elle; the coil is on the top of my suspect list. BTW - when you
get the replacement don't forget it is a big no-no to fire the coil without
a load. The coil will short out.

Mike

 

--------------------------

Since the car is new-to-you, did you check to see if the igniter has the
proper heat-sink paste on the backside (like a Pentium Chip).

If it can't keep cool, it will shut down like you described. I think we
had another one like this a few months ago. I may be wrong.

'Curly'

 

Just reinforcing Mike's point about not firing the coil
unloaded. Tegger's site discusses this. At least one poster
in the last year destroyed a new coil or fairly young coil
this way.

 

Replace the TW sensor.

 

Ok, again thanks for all the responses you guys are VERY helpful. I
have the car scheduled to go in the shop tommow but i don't think thats
gonna happen as I don't wanna get it towed 3 blocks away and drive it
those 6 blocks uninspected, uninsured, unregistered AND pay a $65 an
hour labor rate to get it diagnosed yet. Every other post I have read
and what you guys are saying points to these exact things so what the
hell they are old anyways so here's what I'm going to replace this
weekend;

Ignition coil, tw sensor (where is its exact location cant find info),
check to see if the igniter has the proper heat-sink paste on the
backside (how would I know if its wrong?) or just replace the darn
thing, and gap the plugs.

Typo before, I meant to say "I orderd an ignition coil as I COULDN't
get a spark plug to work when I pulled it out grounded it and cranked
the motor over (right after it had stalled), could just be that I
didn't ground the plug good or am just blind lol. Although I cant hear
the fuel pump working when I pop the auxiliary fuel filter off a little
fuel does squirt out.

UPDATE THIS WEEKEND STAY TUNED!

 

I don't recall it changing noticeably no.

 

Sorry one more thing I forgot (we should be able to edit posts), and
this may sound retarded but what do you mean not firing the ignition
coil unloaded? Making sure everything is connected?

 

That's the best way - you can hold the wire near ground so a spark can jump,
but just don't operate the ignition with no place for the energy to go
http://tinyurl.com/fauw6. It zaps the coil, like this:
http://tinyurl.com/hp5th

Mike

 

To locate the TW sensor, peer in to the engine compartment from the front of
your car; the sensor should be about 1-1/2 inches to the left of the
rear-left (your left) corner of the head cover.

The performance of the TW sensor is sensitive to the presence of air in the
cooling system. Before you replace the sensor, you might want to make sure
that your cooling system - including heater core - is fully purged. Coolant
level in the reservoir tank should be up to the 'max' line.