91 Accord - screeches when first moves

Lately the Accord (105k) has a screeching noise when first driven - it
lasts 5 seconds or so and varies with the speed of the car. Then it
goes away. I guess a belt? It's overdue for a general big maintenance
job. I couldn't see anything wrong with the belts. Timing belt was
done about a year and a half back.

I first noticed it when it was raining out, but now it does it when
it's dry. Not all the time, maybe half the time.

Any suggestions appreciated.

 

Congratulations...you just bought yourself a new $300 distributor.

Pull the rotor cap of the distributor and see if there is red rusty dust
around the inside of the cover. Telltale sign. The outer distributor bearing
goes bad, squeals on the shaft. If you catch it in the early stages you
might save yourself from overheating and destroying the ignitor. That will
save you like $90. In the later stages it may result in the rotor button
melting and the engine will not run, or may be out of time. Spraying a
little bit of thin oil on the bearing may rusult in a temporary reduction in
noise, but it will not stop it from having to be replaced.
I could be wrong in my guess, but the exact thing happened in my '92. It
quit running on me because the rotor button melted and spun nearly 180
degrees around.
Be careful if you try tightening the belts; if you overtighten them you may
also destroy the harmonic balancer pulley on the crank. Ask me how I know
that...

 

How do you...

The distributor looks newish. What I don't like is that there seems to
be a bit of oil coming from two of the spark plug holes. I think I'll
have someone take a look.

 

before you panic, check the alternator, power steering and a/c belts.
if loose, it's typical for them to squeal on startup, then quiet down,
just as you describe. failed bearings generally continue to squeal as
long as they're being used.

and you can't destroy an "harmonic balancer" on a 91 accord - it doesn't
have one, it's an ordinary pulley wheel.

 

========================

There's a picture of an older one here (from Jim Beam), which seems to
confirm that there's no internal harmonic balancer on them... My '97
CR-V certainly has one built in to the pulley.

http://www.tegger.com/hondafaq/cranktool/index.html

 

I beg to differ..it most cetainly does have:
http://www.rockauto.com/catalog/raframecatalog.php?carcode=1167195&parttype=5512&a=FRc1167195k292243

a 2-piece pully separated by a rubber dividor. I never said anything about
it being internal. And it will fly apart if you over tighten the belt. I
'know' that because, at the advice of someone in the forums who knew nothing
of the cronic issues with the distributor bearing, I kept tightening the
belt. Eventually the outer pulley separated from the inner hub. Made a mess
of things down there too.

If it hadn't been for the car quitting completely and discovering that
the spark was nearly 180 degrees out I might have put it in the shop. It
occurred to me to pull the distrib cap to confirm that the rotor was turning
when I found it was full of red rusty debris. I could see that it had melted
on the center hub and spun around.(see link at bottom) If you get a handle
on it before it gets too hot it may not destroy the ignitor module in
there...it was too late for mine. I think if you pull the distrib cap off,
pop off the rotor button, and then pull off that dustcover
http://isomerica.net/~dpn/blogimages/distrib_dustcover.jpg
in there you can get a good look at the outer bearing.

I apologize for jumping to the conclusion that it was definitely your
distributor, and possibly inducing panic. JB was right to point that out.

http://viewmorepics.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=user.editAlbumPhoto&albumID=399359&imageID=34114973&MyToken=81022eb9-ec20-4c77-bb53-f00c3ef914d2

 

you're right that a true rubber-separated balancer will disintegrate if
over-tightened and run for a long time. but the 91 accord doesn't have
one, regardless of any generic pics or names used in a third-party
catalog. check the honda catalog.

http://www.hondaautomotiveparts.com/auto/jsp/mws/prddisplay.jsp?inputstate=5&catcgry1=ACCORD&catcgry2=1991&catcgry3=4DR+DX&catcgry4=KL4AT&catcgry5=PISTON-CRANKSHAFT

"PULLEY, CRANKSHAFT", not "balancer, crankshaft". the engine's got its
own internal balancer shafts for that job, items 11 & 12.

 

JB..it's a 2 piece pulley, inner and outer hub separated by rubber. Call it
what we will..it will fly apart with too much pressure on it.

 

yes, the 2-piece ones will, but the 91 accord is a single-piece, all
steel, pulley wheel, not a balancer. maybe you're thinking toyota?

 

/sarcasm on

My gosh..since you put it that way..it becomes clear to me that I was
mistaken.

Apparently that wasn't a '92 Honda Accord that I put a $300 distributor
on. Perhaps I put a new harmonic balancer pulley on a Camry because my
original one flew apart. I must have been driving a Toyota Camry all those
225,000 miles. In fact, I'm betting all 6 of my Honda Accords are really
Camrys under the skin.
In fact..oh my gosh, I hadn't even considered this!...maybe, just
maybe..I haven't really been working for Honda for the last 21 years, but
just showing up at a plant that says Honda on the front of the building when
really...(OMG!) my pay checks were underwritten by Toyota.

Them bastards!

It is amazing how crystal clear things become when somebody lays it out
there for you in black and white.

/sarcasm off

JB:
I respect the fact that you are an active participant in the discussions
that take place in this forum, and I am certain that you have and will
continue to provide many of the users here with tons of useful information,
that will ultimately save them time and money. I acknowledge that I was
wrong in my first reply to have risked inducing panic when, in fact, I could
have been wrong about the OP's symptoms being a bad distributor.
But dude...you are contradicting my statements which are an accurate,
factual account of my very own experiences with my very own ('92) Honda
Accord.
Fact: The root cause of my squeal was a worn-out bearing in the
distributor. This was a common problem for that generation, as confirmed by
the tech I spoke with at the FACTORY SERVICE CENTER.
Fact: Incrementally tightening my belt put extreme pressure on the
2-piece pulley bolted to the crank, which ultimately caused it to come
apart. The only part remaining bolted to the crank was the inner hub, which
had an outer rubber ring around it.
Fact: The new harmonic balancer, which I bought from the FACTORY SERVICE
CENTER was a 2-piece pulley, with a rubber divider between the 2 steel
parts. Call it a pulley; call it a balancer...I don't care. It did and will
come apart, the outer pulley from the inner hub.

I respectfully give you the last post regarding this diference of
opinion.

Doc

 

indeed, it is a common failure - i'm simply saying that the symptom,
squealing that then disappears, is /much/ more likely to be a belt, and
given that belt squeal is so cheap and easy to fix, it should be looked
at first!

as for cause, consistent squeal is more likely to be bearing. stopping
to listen for the source with the hood up is going to isolate which is
which.

indeed - that's what happens if a balancer wheel like that is old, the
rubber has fatigued, and the belt is over-tightened.

as i said before, if it's two wheels with rubber, it /is/ a balancer -
no rubber, it's not. don't assume i'm assuming you can't differentiate
- but many /other/ people can't and don't, including parts suppliers.
as for its existence on a 91 accord, i guess i'll have to take pics when
i'm next in a junkyard

eventually, yes, that'll happen. not so much with new ones as the
rubber hasn't fatigued.

 

On Sat, 31 May 2008 23:02:42 -0700, jim beam


It was apparently, good news, a loose belt. But it did need rear
brakes and a new gasket to stop oil from leaking out the spark plugs
and messing up the ignition wires, plus new ignition wires. And the
inspection. So, around $500. It's worth doing to keep it running
another year I guess.

 

i'd highly suspect the necessity of the rear brakes - honda drum brakes
wear at a /very/ low rate. and i'd suspect the need to do your shocks
too, frankly. it's not unknown for unscrupulous shops to spray oil on
them to convince customers of the need to open their wallets, and honda
shocks last a /long/ time.

 

I can't remember when the rear brakes were done but I did hear a
slight grinding noise lately. The last time I had it inspected the
pads were looking pretty thin.

 

grinding is usually dust. removal of dust usually solves.

drum brakes have shoes, not pads. he said pedantically.

 

Maybe he's just thinking...

You seem to have trouble with that.

 

JB doesn't take into account 'experience'. If he doesn't know it, well,
it just isn't knowledge!

And after looking over a few of his answers, I'd seek a second opinion
before ripping out an engine that needs a water pump or something.
Guy appears to be a shot-gunner...it sounds like this, so it must be
this. It's just too bad if it's not and was something as simple as a
screeching belt...