91 honda with choke problem when cold

Discussion in 'General Motoring' started by Stevoo, Feb 14, 2008.

  1. Stevoo

    Stevoo Guest

    Hey guys...its been a while since my last post seeing things have been
    problem free for the past year or so :)

    I have a 91 honda 3-door 1.3l with 140Km on it. It is
    carburetted with a manual (yes the cable one) choke. Ever since the
    temperature has gotten cooler I've been having choke-related problems.
    I adjust the choke prior to starting up and the car starts up fine.

    Usually I wait for the car to warm up a bit and and then
    release the choke, but lately the choke has been acting up...As long
    as I don't drive around and let it sit idle, high rpms are maintained
    (1500-2000), but as soon as I start to drive around and say I put it
    in neutral (manual Trans.) the rev counter dips under 1000revs and
    hovers there and in some cases even stalls the engine unless I hit the
    gas. When warm the car idles perfectly.

    I took the car to my local carb guy and he checked it
    out...about a year ago he took it apart and thoroughly cleaned it. He
    did find the choke cable slightly loose and he tightened it
    accordingly and the mixture was slightly lean so he adjusted that
    too...The choke does seem to be functioning slightly better as a
    result but it still dips to just under 1000revs and hovers there...It
    seems like the choke is not managing to remain "closed" when it is
    given gas and hence not enough fuel is being siphoned off

    As always any help would be appreciated....

    Steve
     
    Stevoo, Feb 14, 2008
    #1
  2. Stevoo

    Tegger Guest



    You're in Malta, apparently.

    You say "cooler" weather has arrived. What's "cooler"? 70F? It was -6F
    here two days ago here.

    1500-2000 is way too high for sustained high idle. That's fine for the
    initial flareup, but after that you should be modulating it to 1000-
    1500, then decreasing it as much as you can as quickly as you can as the
    engine warms.

    The sooner the choke is able to be pushed off, the better for the
    engine. Extended choke use means lots of raw fuel being pulled into the
    engine, very bad for the bores and bearings.

    I'm not quite sure what you're describing here. From my reading, it
    sounds like you're pushing the choke off all the way and the engine is
    idling below 1000rpm. Choke off, you should be around 750rpm. Choke on
    (warm or cold), it would be above that, actual idle dependent on how far
    you've pulled it closed.

    Could you clarify a bit?
     
    Tegger, Feb 15, 2008
    #2
  3. Stevoo

    Stevoo Guest

    Yes, correct
    Cooler is 7 C for Malta...but given the humidity here its more like
    3-4. I'm originally from Toronto so I know what real cold is :)
    Sorry for the misunderstanding...1500 revs with choke ON (as in
    choke light is on, and engine still cold)...When the car wamrs up it
    idles perfectly at 750 rpms with choke OFF (choke light off and engine
    close to normal operating temp.)
    So the problem is when the car is still cold and with the choke ON the
    revs fluctuate and are not maintained....with the biggest issue being
    when putting the car into neutral after accelerating to say 60Km/
    h...the revs go under 1000rpm with the choke still on and basically
    hover there and might in some cases fall go to 0, stalling the car
    unless I hit the gas. As soon as the car warms up I put the choke off
    and the car maintains the idle rpms without hesitation. It seems to be
    something of a mechanical nature I guess.

    Sorry for the confusion regarding choke off/on....I know that in
    actual fact the choke is physically closed when ON and fully open when
    OFF....

    Thanks for your reply

    Steve
     
    Stevoo, Feb 15, 2008
    #3
  4. Stevoo

    jim beam Guest

    there are usually two parts of a choke mechanism:

    1. the bit that raises the revs.
    2. the bit that restricts airflow to make the mixture rich.

    sounds like #2 is failing because if the mix is rich, it won't die when
    you open the throttle.

    can't offer more blind advice because i'm not familiar with this carb,
    but suggest you take the top off and observe the action of the choke
    plate. look for springs that are supposed to hold it closed, but which
    are broken, thus leaving the choke plate open.
     
    jim beam, Feb 15, 2008
    #4
  5. Stevoo

    Tegger Guest

    :


    Does the idle
    1) flutuate with a regular rhythm, hitting the same high and low points
    each time,
    2) does it hunt all over the place, or
    3) does it settle to a steady but different level each time you stop the
    car?


    It does sound like an overfueling situation.

    I'd check (as jim beam has stated) that the throttle-opening cam is
    actually engaging and holding the throttle part-open when the choke is on.

    If the throttle is completely closed with the choke on and the engine cold,
    the engine will stall.

    Haven't worked on a carb in years, so this is from memory. The fast-idle
    throttle-opening mechanism usually involves a stepped cam on the throttle
    spindle, operated by an adjustable screw on the choke mechanism. I've seen
    the screw bent off to one side, loose, or otherwise not contacting the
    stepped cam properly.

    I think you need to visually and carefully inspect the linkage and its
    motion. This can be done while the engine is off.
     
    Tegger, Feb 16, 2008
    #5
  6. Stevoo

    bi241 Guest

    In Honda carbureted, the fast idle unloader will pull the fast idle
    cam and release the choke when the engine reaches normal temperature
    But in these cars, the gas pedal will override the FIU and release the
    choke if you press it during the warm up process or any time after
    starting. Your boss is a prick and you may be late for work, no?

    What you have experienced is not about the choke not remaining closed
    as it should, it's about the choke staying open when it should NOT.

    It's OK to reduce the warm up time in summer and you won't see any
    anomalies if your ignition is super strong. But you'll see all the
    kinks if you do so during winter time with weak ignition. So give her
    a complete tune up and let her warm up a little bit before you want to
    ride her hard.. :)
     
    bi241, Feb 17, 2008
    #6
  7. Stevoo

    bi241 Guest


    Oops i didn't read the part that says your choke is manual, my bad!!

    Give her a tune up anyway, symptom that looks like fuel related may be
    in fact ignition problems

    cheers!.
     
    bi241, Feb 17, 2008
    #7
  8. Stevoo

    Stevoo Guest

    Update: After playing about with different choke positions with the
    manual knob I found that setting it to the first position...i.e. least
    choke, the choke does not exhibit any of the issues mentioned
    above...In fact the problem has arisen since I've used this setting...

    What this means I guess is that the problem is probably what Jim/
    Tegger stated and there is some mechanical issue relating the throttle-
    opening cam is exhibited when the choke is pulled beyond the first
    position....I will confirm this when I have some time to take off the
    air cleaner and visualise it myself...


    Thanks alot for your help/time guys...much appreciated
     
    Stevoo, Feb 18, 2008
    #8
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