'93 civic, engine cuts out while driving on highway ?

Found a schematic online. This is a little over my head, but I'm trying to
grasp it anyway.

As I understand it, the IC drops the base current at the correct time,
causing flow to stop between emitter and collector. This is the action of
switching the transistor off, forcing the field collapse that creates the
HT current in the coil.

According to some pages I'm finding, the current-limiting resistor changes
its value as *voltage* goes up, which is how the IC knows what's happening.
http://www.williamson-labs.com/480_xtor.htm

But I'm not following how *voltage* goes up here. I'm not understanding the
connection between *current* and *voltage*. I thought the two were
independent of each other.

 

@corp.supernews.com:

Very interesting. I'd love to see pictures, if you can get them. Especially
of the wire having come loose from its pad.

Grahame Wood has similar pics on his Web site, here:
http://www.gcw.org.uk/rover/igniter.htm

 

@corp.supernews.com:

Very interesting. I'd love to see pictures, if you can get them. Especially
of the wire having come loose from its pad.

Grahame Wood has similar pics on his Web site, here:
http://www.gcw.org.uk/rover/igniter.htm

 

@corp.supernews.com:

Very interesting. I'd love to see pictures, if you can get them. Especially
of the wire having come loose from its pad.

Grahame Wood has similar pics on his Web site, here:
http://www.gcw.org.uk/rover/igniter.htm

 

@corp.supernews.com:

And they said I was nuts...

 

A very important additional point to be made is that coil/wire arcing
and leakage to ground will result in a steady flow of tiny misfires,
much too small to be felt by you, and possibly even the OBD-II system.

These misfires are by far and away the #1 cause of catalytic converter
failure. The constant trickle of unburnt fuel "sinters" the surface of
the cat, reducing its surface area, and thus reducing its effectiveness.

The OBD-II system makes a very big deal of monitoring closely for
misfires for this very reason.

Replacement of the entire HT side with new OEM every four or five years
(plugs more often than that) will do much to help your horrendously
expensive OEM cat last the lifetime of the vehicle.

 

interesting! can't see how it would be possible to prevent this, or fix
it, but interesting nevertheless!

 

interesting! can't see how it would be possible to prevent this, or fix
it, but interesting nevertheless!

 

interesting! can't see how it would be possible to prevent this, or fix
it, but interesting nevertheless!

 

sure i can do that but i do not have a convenient web site to
post pics, i will need to put them on one of the file share sites
or post to some binary usenet group e.g. alt.binaries.???

all the terminal wires have broken off while finishing the
cleaning and performing the test with the probes. those silver
connector wires were quite fragile... one bend and a return bend
and they popped right off the pads that the wires connected to
on the actuall circuit board might be more interesting as they
should be welded to the circuit board and not pop off at all.

then the one pad that did dis-connect had corrosion on the weld
where it was suppose to be conected to circuit board. looked like
lead that is oxidized, dark gray and when you scratch it you get
shiny silver

i'll find a place to post the pics and post links here later,
rob

 

sure i can do that but i do not have a convenient web site to
post pics, i will need to put them on one of the file share sites
or post to some binary usenet group e.g. alt.binaries.???

all the terminal wires have broken off while finishing the
cleaning and performing the test with the probes. those silver
connector wires were quite fragile... one bend and a return bend
and they popped right off the pads that the wires connected to
on the actuall circuit board might be more interesting as they
should be welded to the circuit board and not pop off at all.

then the one pad that did dis-connect had corrosion on the weld
where it was suppose to be conected to circuit board. looked like
lead that is oxidized, dark gray and when you scratch it you get
shiny silver

i'll find a place to post the pics and post links here later,
rob

 

sure i can do that but i do not have a convenient web site to
post pics, i will need to put them on one of the file share sites
or post to some binary usenet group e.g. alt.binaries.???

all the terminal wires have broken off while finishing the
cleaning and performing the test with the probes. those silver
connector wires were quite fragile... one bend and a return bend
and they popped right off the pads that the wires connected to
on the actuall circuit board might be more interesting as they
should be welded to the circuit board and not pop off at all.

then the one pad that did dis-connect had corrosion on the weld
where it was suppose to be conected to circuit board. looked like
lead that is oxidized, dark gray and when you scratch it you get
shiny silver

i'll find a place to post the pics and post links here later,
rob

 

Who said this? I just checked my personal "Honda
Maintenance" spreadsheet with the OEM maintenance schedule
and the ones others recommend, and what you do is not far
from what is OEM recommended: 60k/4 years for wires, rotor
and cap. I am going with yours for the immediate future,
though. Or I will go to four years, since as of a few months
ago, I am now living in an even hotter climate out West, and
I think the heat takes more of a toll on the electronics and
electrical (read: battery especially!) parts.

Jim, understood about the transients. Bad wording on my
part. I was trying to give the practical, "for-the-amateur,"
candidate solution to the transients.

 

Email them to me. I'll make them part of the igniter pages.

 

Email them to me. I'll make them part of the igniter pages.

 

Email them to me. I'll make them part of the igniter pages.

 

No,for the igniter,the emitter resistor is a fixed value,and the -voltage
developed across it- increases as current thru it increases(the coil
current).That voltage is fed back to an IC input and when it reaches a set
value,the IC shuts off the transistor.That's how the IC measures the coil
current.

here's the relationship;
E=IxR
I=E/R

E=voltage
I= current
R= resistance



See,when you hook 12V across a coil,the current thru the coil is a linear
ramp up until the coil saturates. So,the IC measures that ramping current
with the emitter resistor,and compares the voltage developed across the
resistor to an internal voltage,when they equal,a switch turns off the
external switcher transistor,removing the 12V from the coil.
Then the magnetic field collapses and the HV spark is generated in the coil
windings.

 

Without seeing a pic,I'd say it was a cheaply made igniter.
It sounds like the wire broke from vibration or thermal stress.The pad
lifting seems like it's a cheapo circuit board,not a ceramic substrate.
I'd like to see a pic.


On
http://www.gcw.org.uk/rover/igniter.htm
that black goo may be a grease to keep out water.
If it were accumulated engine/road crud,it would have a gritty feel to it.

Robb's tranlucent goo may be a different grease,perhaps a silicone grease.

 

Thanks for all help Tegger and jim beam,

Problem was definately the ignitor.

Went with your advices and purchsased Honda parts, the
ignitor/ICM was ($126).

installed ICM and car fired right up.

the bent dist. cap contact spring must have come from some lazy
azz who did not want to pull spark plug wires to put distributor
cap back on (dealer replaced the distributor about 3 years ago)
but that seems to just mean the shell/housing as they transfered
all the old internal parts {ICM,coil, rotor, dist cap} to the
new distributor housing

I went ahead and checked the Mains Relay (for solder problems)...
i must have the new design as there was lots of solder on the
connections with very large traces between the connections,
looked good to me.

thanks again for the help.
robb

 

Thanks for all help Tegger and jim beam,

Problem was definately the ignitor.

Went with your advices and purchsased Honda parts, the
ignitor/ICM was ($126).

installed ICM and car fired right up.

the bent dist. cap contact spring must have come from some lazy
azz who did not want to pull spark plug wires to put distributor
cap back on (dealer replaced the distributor about 3 years ago)
but that seems to just mean the shell/housing as they transfered
all the old internal parts {ICM,coil, rotor, dist cap} to the
new distributor housing

I went ahead and checked the Mains Relay (for solder problems)...
i must have the new design as there was lots of solder on the
connections with very large traces between the connections,
looked good to me.

thanks again for the help.
robb