'93 civic failed emission or suspicious emision test ?

please, if your reading age drops below 3rd grade, it's best you do.

 

please, if your reading age drops below 3rd grade, it's best you do.

 

Well, it was stated that the tester was having a hard time positioning
the machine's tach pickup... and 2700 is suspiciously close to 1/2 of
5000 (maybe the car's tach was actually reading 5400). IF the tach
pickup was only getting every other spark (like from only one coil of a
2-coil pack on a 4-cylinder) then it could easily read 1/2 the correct
value.

Get it tested again somewhere else- that'll give you a final answer.

 

Well, it was stated that the tester was having a hard time positioning
the machine's tach pickup... and 2700 is suspiciously close to 1/2 of
5000 (maybe the car's tach was actually reading 5400). IF the tach
pickup was only getting every other spark (like from only one coil of a
2-coil pack on a 4-cylinder) then it could easily read 1/2 the correct
value.

Get it tested again somewhere else- that'll give you a final answer.

 

C'mon, Jim....

Its a CHEAP test, and there's certainly reason to question the first
test (yes you CAN screw it up... its not easy, but it can be done, and I
mentioned one way- getting the tach pickup positioned incorrectly so
that its off by a factor of 2).

If this were an OBD-II system resetting a code repeatedly, I'd agree
with you 100%, just fix the problem. But it WAS a suspect test procedure.

 

C'mon, Jim....

Its a CHEAP test, and there's certainly reason to question the first
test (yes you CAN screw it up... its not easy, but it can be done, and I
mentioned one way- getting the tach pickup positioned incorrectly so
that its off by a factor of 2).

If this were an OBD-II system resetting a code repeatedly, I'd agree
with you 100%, just fix the problem. But it WAS a suspect test procedure.

 

that's the worst thing about the op's description of the test - the tach
reading, unless it's a obdII vehicle, is taken by putting a sensor on
one of the plug leads, under the hood, not a "paddle" on the dash. and
revving the engine is perfectly kosher if the cat is cold or there is a
misfire.

bottom line, the test was good. the op's description was unreliable.
and his paranoia unjustified. the emissions result was perfectly
consistent with the failure that followed.

 

that's the worst thing about the op's description of the test - the tach
reading, unless it's a obdII vehicle, is taken by putting a sensor on
one of the plug leads, under the hood, not a "paddle" on the dash. and
revving the engine is perfectly kosher if the cat is cold or there is a
misfire.

bottom line, the test was good. the op's description was unreliable.
and his paranoia unjustified. the emissions result was perfectly
consistent with the failure that followed.

 

very hard to mess it up. and you won't get a "factor of 2" on this
vehicle.

the test is kosher. the op's description is flawed. spending more
money on a test would have been a waste.

 

very hard to mess it up. and you won't get a "factor of 2" on this
vehicle.

the test is kosher. the op's description is flawed. spending more
money on a test would have been a waste.

 

Actually, I've seen OBD-1 inspections done on machines where a mag-mount
antenna is stuck to the underside of the hood or fenderwell near the
engine, not on a plug lead. Not all machines are made the same, and I
immediately thought that design was just begging for a frequency error-
crappy machine design if you ask me. But even clamping on a plug wire
can have an error. I have used enough induction-pickup timing lights
that get enough cross-talk between plug wires that they sometimes fire
multiple times per distributor rotation, unless you position the pickup
*very* carefully. And with a single antenna system like I described, you
can get exactly the opposite problem on waste-spark ignition systems.
The machine expects to pick up all spark pulses and divide by 4, but if
it only picks up the spark from 1 coil and divides by 4, it will get 1/2
the correct RPM.

and

If the description was so poor, then you have no stronger case that it
was good than I have in saying that it is questionable.

Some aspects were, I'll give you that. He admitted he wasn't paying
close attention. But if he *EVER* saw 6000 on the car's tach, that alone
make me suspicious. 3500 RPM or so- sure. 6000? No WAY.

MAYBE.

$30 for another test will remove all doubt. Cheap. If my wife came home
with the same story, I'd take it myself and have it tested before I
started throwing money at emissions parts.

 

Actually, I've seen OBD-1 inspections done on machines where a mag-mount
antenna is stuck to the underside of the hood or fenderwell near the
engine, not on a plug lead. Not all machines are made the same, and I
immediately thought that design was just begging for a frequency error-
crappy machine design if you ask me. But even clamping on a plug wire
can have an error. I have used enough induction-pickup timing lights
that get enough cross-talk between plug wires that they sometimes fire
multiple times per distributor rotation, unless you position the pickup
*very* carefully. And with a single antenna system like I described, you
can get exactly the opposite problem on waste-spark ignition systems.
The machine expects to pick up all spark pulses and divide by 4, but if
it only picks up the spark from 1 coil and divides by 4, it will get 1/2
the correct RPM.

and

If the description was so poor, then you have no stronger case that it
was good than I have in saying that it is questionable.

Some aspects were, I'll give you that. He admitted he wasn't paying
close attention. But if he *EVER* saw 6000 on the car's tach, that alone
make me suspicious. 3500 RPM or so- sure. 6000? No WAY.

MAYBE.

$30 for another test will remove all doubt. Cheap. If my wife came home
with the same story, I'd take it myself and have it tested before I
started throwing money at emissions parts.

 

Maybe. Those cars can be sensitive to test procedures.
I always let them run @ 2500 for 3 or 4 minutes before testing, I had
a much easier time getting them to pass that way.

I hate to sound nebulous, but... maybe..
O2, map, coolant sensor, tight valves.. there possibilities are almost
endless.

Er.. um.. maybe
Yes, I have seen plenty of O2's last a long time.
As another poster suggested, it's time to get your car someplace
*competent*
Ask your friends, call the BBB, call AAA.. find someone with a track
record of 'very high quality'.
Dont shotgun it with cheap parts, it may work, probably wont.
At least 3/4's of the problems I see mentioned on this board stem from
someone trying to save money....
Good luck, and I hope this helps.
Ben

 

Maybe. Those cars can be sensitive to test procedures.
I always let them run @ 2500 for 3 or 4 minutes before testing, I had
a much easier time getting them to pass that way.

I hate to sound nebulous, but... maybe..
O2, map, coolant sensor, tight valves.. there possibilities are almost
endless.

Er.. um.. maybe
Yes, I have seen plenty of O2's last a long time.
As another poster suggested, it's time to get your car someplace
*competent*
Ask your friends, call the BBB, call AAA.. find someone with a track
record of 'very high quality'.
Dont shotgun it with cheap parts, it may work, probably wont.
At least 3/4's of the problems I see mentioned on this board stem from
someone trying to save money....
Good luck, and I hope this helps.
Ben

 

The original was of super high quality if it lasted over 200,000
miles.
Why even try another brand?
From my experience, denso's, bosch etc are all a crap shoot.
If you install it and it doesnt work your only recourse is to exchange
it and try another piece of crap and cross your fingers. Maybe they'll
refund your money.. maybe not.
If you value your time as I do, only use good parts, and never as a
guess.
HTH,
Ben

 

The original was of super high quality if it lasted over 200,000
miles.
Why even try another brand?
From my experience, denso's, bosch etc are all a crap shoot.
If you install it and it doesnt work your only recourse is to exchange
it and try another piece of crap and cross your fingers. Maybe they'll
refund your money.. maybe not.
If you value your time as I do, only use good parts, and never as a
guess.
HTH,
Ben

 

What happen, what i did and PASS results follow.

First emmisions test failed. Tester had a difficult time geting a
stable tach reading.
Car died while driving two days later, would not re-start, or
fire. Car had a very weak spark (as tested with my hand).
Tested coil with Ohm meter at ~ 8 kOhms it was in replace range.

I replaced ignition coil, replaced plug wires, I cleaned the
rotor and cap terminals, I changed the plugs, replaced the PCV
valve and put in a new engine air filter. Then i took for my
free retest.

2009 **( RE-TEST )** numbers
===========================
....................25/25 test............50/15
--------------------------...........---------
HC ppm .........60....................54
CO %.............0.13 .................0.15
NOx ppm.......168...................146
RPM..............2084.................1913
CO + CO2 %....15.1...............15.1

So not too bad
Thanks to groups for helping.

robb

 

What happen, what i did and PASS results follow.

First emmisions test failed. Tester had a difficult time geting a
stable tach reading.
Car died while driving two days later, would not re-start, or
fire. Car had a very weak spark (as tested with my hand).
Tested coil with Ohm meter at ~ 8 kOhms it was in replace range.

I replaced ignition coil, replaced plug wires, I cleaned the
rotor and cap terminals, I changed the plugs, replaced the PCV
valve and put in a new engine air filter. Then i took for my
free retest.

2009 **( RE-TEST )** numbers
===========================
....................25/25 test............50/15
--------------------------...........---------
HC ppm .........60....................54
CO %.............0.13 .................0.15
NOx ppm.......168...................146
RPM..............2084.................1913
CO + CO2 %....15.1...............15.1

So not too bad
Thanks to groups for helping.

robb