94 Civic EX: loose parking brake = need specialty shoes???

Wow--I'm glad I came across you guys in a Google search. I've learned a
lot already in perusing.

This is my first Honda (5-spd), I've had it a week, and I'm just getting
to know it. Bit of a shock going from the (decaying) tank I had
previously for 8 years, an 85 Pontiac wagon with a V-8 5.0-liter engine
and steel bumpers, but it was high time to move on and so far I'm very
impressed. Got my shop manual from Helm yesterday, but still have a
question (well, just one for now...).

The parking brake is loose--barely holds from rolling backwards on a
medium hill at the last notch. The rear pads are nice and thick so I
figured correcting this would be just a matter of adjusting the cable,
but one guy told me there were shoes inside the rotor just for the
parking brake(!). Since I can't find any mention of such pads in either
parts lists or the shop manual and that suggestion just doesn't make
much sense to me, I'm guessing the guy just doesn't know the brakes on
this car. Figured I'd ask here to be sure.

If adjusting the cable doesn't do the trick, is the next step to replace
it--assuming that it's stretched out? Tips would be appreciated.

Also, does anyone have a favorite source for quality tools that aren't
too costly, either online (U.S.A. merchants) or in New York City? I need
a metric combination wrench set, preferably with case, and a Torx/star
wrench--and with respect to the Torx I'm tired of the cheap, soft metal
one I've got now! Ick! (was the only one I could find at the time I
needed it)

Thanks,

Abe

 

For tools I always buy Craftsman. If you buy a wrench, you will have one
for life.

: Wow--I'm glad I came across you guys in a Google search. I've learned a
: lot already in perusing.
:
: This is my first Honda (5-spd), I've had it a week, and I'm just getting
: to know it. Bit of a shock going from the (decaying) tank I had
: previously for 8 years, an 85 Pontiac wagon with a V-8 5.0-liter engine
: and steel bumpers, but it was high time to move on and so far I'm very
: impressed. Got my shop manual from Helm yesterday, but still have a
: question (well, just one for now...).
:
: The parking brake is loose--barely holds from rolling backwards on a
: medium hill at the last notch. The rear pads are nice and thick so I
: figured correcting this would be just a matter of adjusting the cable,
: but one guy told me there were shoes inside the rotor just for the
: parking brake(!). Since I can't find any mention of such pads in either
: parts lists or the shop manual and that suggestion just doesn't make
: much sense to me, I'm guessing the guy just doesn't know the brakes on
: this car. Figured I'd ask here to be sure.
:
: If adjusting the cable doesn't do the trick, is the next step to replace
: it--assuming that it's stretched out? Tips would be appreciated.
:
: Also, does anyone have a favorite source for quality tools that aren't
: too costly, either online (U.S.A. merchants) or in New York City? I need
: a metric combination wrench set, preferably with case, and a Torx/star
: wrench--and with respect to the Torx I'm tired of the cheap, soft metal
: one I've got now! Ick! (was the only one I could find at the time I
: needed it)
:
: Thanks,
:
: Abe

 

does it have rear discs? wouldnt hurt to adjust the cable. i found mine
was too slack on the passenger side, so i had to adjust the little star
thingie inside the drum... (drum brakes).

 

Aside for original poster: Majestic says the EX with ABS brakes has rear disk
brakes. Without ABS, the EX has rear drum brakes.

Yes, if it has drum brakes, I'd say go for the star wheel adjuster inside the
brake drums.

www.autozone.com (see free repair guide link on right) has directions on
adjusting the rear brakes, which also ends up adjusting the parking brake,
though it's a little vague on what exactly you do to find and rotate the star
wheel adjuster.

Here's my post from July 11 on how I did this with my 1991 Civic (with a lot of
nudges and clues from folks here) a few weeks ago: http://tinyurl.com/4m374

There is also a second, separate procedure for adjusting the parking brake cable
at the console (next to the driver) itself, but this procedure says to adjust
the rear brakes first.

I only adjusted the star wheel adjuster and never went into the console.

Try www.harborfreight.com for some good deals on tools, but you do get what you
pay for. There might be a Harbor Freight store near you.

Otherwise, I buy my tools from Home Depot, Lowe's and once in awhile Autozone
and Sears (Craftsman!).

 

Right. Sorry for the confusion, everyone: I do have ABS and disc brakes
in the rear (rotors with pads, not drums with shoes and a star wheel
adjuster screw/rod).

Thanks for referring me to this. The section on the parking brake
confirms my suspicion that it uses the same pads the foot brake does.

You're right about that, Caroline. Think I'll take the hint and stick
with Craftsman (thanks also to Bob). ;-) Or maybe Snap-on, though they
are pricier. I like tools that don't come apart when I really need them...

SoCalMike: I'll definitely try adjusting the p-brake--as soon as I have
the car back. Three days into owning it someone pulled suddenly out of a
gas station without seeing me coming and it's now in the body shop for
$1500 worth of repairs courtesy of her insurance. Ouch!

Abe

 

i went into the console, but thats when i found the "saddle yoke"
thingie was moving wayyyy too off centered. i gave it a turn to tighten,
anyway, then took the passenger side rear wheel off and used a small
screwdriver to push the gear between the shoes "down".

did a few times until i noticed the drum was getting harder to
reinstall, then backed off a bit. put back on and spun... felt a light
drag. not bad considering it wasnt being held on by the wheel and lugs.

first thought i had when the ebrake got too slack was "my shoes are
toast". not the case... they still have over 50% of the material left on
em, and are up to spec.

it helps to have a micrometer from harbor freight to measure stuff like
this. its in inches, but the helm manual gives both english and metric
specs.

 

make sure they use honda parts, eh? the insurance co is going to try to
cheap out and use chinese stuff.

and yes- there are chinese bootleg car parts.

 

Sure enough... the fender will be OEM, but they're using an aftermarket
turn signal and bumper. The dude did tell me that they are
CAPA-certified and that he warrants the repair for as long as I own the
car. The fender is probably the critical part. I don't mind an
aftermarket turn signal, and I'll just have to hope for the best as far
as the bumper is concerned--in particular, that it's as tough as the OEM
bumper.

Thanks for the heads-up.

Abe

 

Just got the car back from the body shop... pulled the ashtray to look
at the saddle yoke and found that it is way off balance--and this with
disc brakes in the rear. I can't take off the wheels just yet
(logistical issues), and I can't tell from the shop manual whether
there's a slack adjustment at the calipers by which I might balance the
cables individually--nothing like this is mentioned, though it does
mention making sure the p-brake arm contacts the brake caliper pin. If
it isn't, I could see this being the problem.

If there isn't a slack adjustment and if the pads are thick on both
sides, what should I be looking for to balance that yoke?

Abe

 

Pad thickness doesn't matter - there's a self-adjusting screw inside each
caliper piston for handbrake adjustment, which is why you need to screw the
pistons back into the caliper when replacing pads. If your cables don't
match in length, giving a widlly unbalanced equaliser bar (yoke ?) the
suspects would be: a hang up at the clevis pin where the cable attaches to
the lever on the caliper, a bad caliper piston which is not self-adjusting
or a bad outer cable sheath stop where it enters the body. BTW I've never
seen an equaliser bar which is 100% balanced - one cable is always longer
than the other.

Rgds, George Macdonald

"Just because they're paranoid doesn't mean you're not psychotic" - Who, me??

 

Thanks, George. This is very helpful. Thanks for the correct term on
that equilizer bar, I thought I had read someplace "yoke" but that's
much better. I'll check the things you mention as soon as I can get the
wheels off in a few weeks.

Any tricks to screwing that caliper piston back in? On my old Pontiac it
was a matter of using a C-clamp to push the sucker back in, but that
wasn't a screw type as far as I remember. Do I need that special locknut
wrench (if so, where to get it? Not at Matco, Snapon, Craftsman), or can
a more common tool be used? Also, how to determine that the piston is
NOT in fact self-adjusting?

Abe

 

my yoke was at least an inch off- drum brakes. it was bad enough it took
9 clicks to lock the parking brake. adjusting that one drum evened it
out and dropped it to 4 clicks to lock.

 

Are you sure that the other cable (whose adjuster you didn't adjust) is
imparting any braking effort because its drum doesn't seem to be doing
any wearing of the shoes as far as the cable length is concerned.

 

9 clicks?? I'm at 16! (the top) The previous owner clearly neglected it.
The left wheel may be problematic--I have some vague sense from the
"feel" that the right is holding better, and I too have something on the
order of an inch off-balance, twisted toward the right (i.e., looser
left). The right is way tighter.

Abe