94 Civic: exhaust system replacement

Now that my muffler has broken off "Pipe B" and is dangling, it seems
that the time to do the exhaust has come 'round at last. I was told last
summer that my "Pipe B" was full of pinholes, but got this far.

I'd like to do the work myself to save a little, though really it's the
parts that are the major expense. Has anyone done this before? Any
pitfalls? I expect I could use a torch for heating stubborn parts, but
otherwise it looks pretty straightforward.

OEM parts cost: Pipe B kit, $132; muffler kit, $124--seems expensive. Is
an aftermarket alternative worth considering? It should last at least as
long as OEM, include all ancillary parts (as it appears the OEM kits
do), and not have fit problems (Pipe B in particular). I'm not
interested in "rice", just want a nice quiet car and not have to chase
after additional parts.

Will I need gasket compound? What kind? Also, the AutoZone repair guide
refers to a "tail pipe cutter" loaner--what for, and will I need it?

Thanks,

Abe

P.S. Had hoped I could do the oil pan gasket at the same time, but it's
the front half (Pipe A) that must be removed to get at that... grrr. I
guess once the back half is off, why NOT wrestle with rusted nuts on the
header?? :-(

 

the pitfall is that if stuff breaks, you're going to have to replace
more than you bought. torching can be helpful, but beware of damaging
the car - obvious to some but not all from what i've seen.

some tips:
1. when wrenching the nuts on the pipes, soak parts in wd40 for a few
hours before working. obviously, only apply wd40 to a /cold/ exhaust.
2. use a 6-point socket.
3. use a 1/2" ratchet with a /long/ extension and use both hands to the
nut is loaded with pure torque, /not/ bending. if you use no extension
and one hand, the nut is loaded with end-on torque & sideways load.
this last can cause slippage & damage to the nut making subsequent
removal very difficult. again, using the long extension & two hands
ensure the nut gets torque only and it /should/ come off, even if it's
very stiff initially.

there's many online sources of oem standard parts. shop around.

no. none. no. not if you use oem & the oem gaskets.

header nuts are less of a problem than you'd think. or at least, not
here in california. but you'll need the header gaskets...

 

In an area with snow, exhaust manifold nuts are treacherous. There is an
excellent chance that at least one stud will break off inside the head.
Then you've got to remove the rad and A/C condenser in order to drill it
out, while taking excruciating care not to damage the threads in the soft
aluminum head. You can drill without removing the rad, but it's a lot more
awkward. Bitch of a job.

Some of the stud nuts will screw off normally, others will be frozen and
you'll end up winding the stud right out of the head, which is not itself a
problem.

Even soaking with penetrant does not necessarily do any good.

 

It is noteworthy that you get lifetime? replacements for the first OEM Honda
muffler kit you buy. You'd really have to have your Honda for a long ass
time to make this work for you but it sounds like a good allocation of
funds.

 

Yeah, I'm a little worried about that, especially given that I'll be
working right next to the cat, which would be an expensive thing to break.

Good tip. I'm pretty careful, but I can imagine some funny sh*it. Thanks
for the others, too, particularly the *6*-point socket and wrench usage
reminder. Now, I had planned on spraying wd40 on hot exhaust, though,

I've found Majestic in RI to have good prices and decent service (and
they're relatively nearby), but SLHonda in CA has WAY better diagrams.
Any other recs?

Think I will go OEM--with all the parts the price really isn't bad.

Thanks again, Jim.

 

This car started out in VA, then spent a couple of years in Buffalo, NY.
When I bought it one of the significant selling points was that it has
hardly any rust--the contrast with my old clunker was quite astonishing.
I may skip the oil pan gasket this time, though (not critical, I think
my engine seal is leaking more, have to look closer), but will try to
soak those nuts in wd40 anyway in case I change my mind. My last car had
the old broken-header-stud problem. Not pretty, but the shop took care
of it.

Is there any reason not to apply a *tiny* bit of super-high-temp urea or
brake grease to the nut threads on re-installation? I suppose it would
just smoke off pretty rapidly, but I wouldn't want it to catch fire.

 

Really?? That's pretty remarkable, thanks for the tip. I'm gonna go OEM
anyway if only because the kit includes all the necessary parts and will
fit correctly without massaging (at least I hope I can expect that from
OEM!).

 

i wouldn't. the nuts are friction locking - and operate in a high
vibration mode. it's not like you need to regularly remove them either.

 

Right. Good sense, thanks.

 

That's a good idea.

I think I'd apply copper or nickel anti-seize, something with metal in it
that won't burn off. Then lower the torque a little to compensate (10%?).

Other than the possibility of overtorquing (or undertorquing!), I can't see
any drawbacks.

 

Well, in my last reply, I should have clarified that I would put the anti-
seize on the STUD before it goes back in the block, not the nut.

 

I'm definitely still a greenhorn--anti-seize didn't occur to me, but
that sounds good, as long as it doesn't impact on the self-locking
nature of the nuts. I gotta remember that for when I change my plugs.

 

Famous last words... I'd forgotten just hoe awful
super-rusted-into-one-hunk-of-slag parts can be... I just spent the
better part of a day today trying to get Pipe-B out. I don't have a
chance on those three bolts while it's still under the car--I think the
only way to get them out will be with a drill, and I think that's more
than my equipment can handle. The nuts have completely fused with the
flange--can't even see the original seam between the two. Also, it looks
like the Pipe-B flange and the Cat flange have fused together. I can
only hope that they'll break apart once the bolts are drilled out. OY!
Of course, the Cat bolts are headless and seat by means of a grooved
shank, so drilling will have to be a careful process so as not to
enlarge the hole. Ick! Though I guess one could always use a short hex
bolt instead.

I tried to unbolt the Cat--only two bolts and they're in *much* better
shape--but one nut is stubbornly still locked in place. (I figured I'd
be better able to drill out the bolts with the whole thing out.) Oh
well. Guess this one goes to the mechanic... Shoulda known I don't have
enough experience/wherewithal to conquer bad rust... Grrrr.