96 Civic transmission problems?

I have a 1996 civic manual with 130k on the original clutch.

I have been hearing some strange noise when I first start moving until
I get around 40mph in 3rd or 4th gear.

At idle with the clutch out, you can hear the same noise though to a
lesser extent. As soon as I put the clutch in the noise completely
disappears!

I get my car service at two dealers, I just usually alternate between
them. Do not ask me why, just happens that way. I have on dealer who
looked at it a bit with my last service and said it sounds like my
transmission is shot or has some chipped gears, but they would need
the day for several days to investigate. The very same day I went to
other dealer and they said it may be my clutch since I am on the
original clutch. The pressure plate or something like that.

So I am confused as to which dealer I go to. Which diagnosis sounds
more reliable? I find it hard to believe the transmission is dead
after just 130k. I am praying for a clutch, because I have heard
transmissions are about $3,000. Thankyou for any input.

 

Any chance your transmission is low on oil, or has the wrong type of oil in
it? The first thing I would do is change that oil. If it's the
transmission, Honda Customer Service might help with the bill, if you talk
nice and explain what a loyal customer you are and how you get the required
service at Honda Dealers. Good Luck. Ps: It would be smart to change the
clutch while you have it apart.

 

Well, I went through like 4 Honda transmissions between 50K and 100K
for which I refuse to accept blame, including several used ones that
were bad when installed, so they can go bad; but generally you're
right, they don't if not abused.

but:
first, you don't need to buy a new trans for $3k, the usual procedure
is to get a used one for like $350 from a junkyard, with a short
warranty against being dead when installed (despite my unfortunate
experiences). But: You usually end up paying for the labor to change
the "new" transmission if it's also defective, though, even though the
junkyard gives you a free replacement, unless your mechanic takes the
responsibility.

or you could have the old one rebuilt for way less that $3k, again
with a short warranty. less popular than the previous option.

But, good It may well be the clutch, since
1) clutches do wear out, much more than transmissions
2) it still makes noise in neutral, that at least eliminates the
"back" half of the transmission from the equation, including all the
synchros, which are the parts that actually wear and/or break teeth,
being made of brass. (The gears themselves are made of cast iron, and
the Honda engine doesn't have enough oomph to mess them up unless they
are defective, which would have probably happened long before now;
plus, being synchromesh, the gears aren't banging their teeth together
when you shift, so if they are supplied with oil they will last
forever) Maybe that first dealer meant synchro teeth, not gear teeth;
they often say dumb things to civilians. (When I was going through all
that, one transmission shop told me it could have been the planetary
gears, on a manual transmission. He couldn't possibly have NOT known
that only automatics have planetaries. could he?)

Aside from the actual clutch itself, it could be the throwout bearing,
which intermediates between all those clutch linkage parts which don't
rotate and the rotating parts; that gets filled up with grease when
the car is born and never sees lubrication again, for 10 years and
130k miles now on your car. replacing it is part of the normal clutch
job, it's not a transmission part. And they do go bad, that was what
started the whole unfortunate series with my car. If you keep your
foot on the clutch at lights etc., that makes them work for a lot more
time than if you just shift into neutral, so if that's your behavior
it might be relevant.

You didn't describe the noise' i'm guessing kind of a whine, or maybe
a growl? that's a typical bearing noise, which could be the throwout
bearing or one of the bearings early in the transmission, (since we've
decided the further on parts of the trans aren't involved).

Anyway, not much more you can determine from outside. About the only
other thing you can do is try to figure out where it's coming from
when it's there, using a piece of hose as a stethoscope. You can
usually do a pretty good job of identifying the location with the
hose; then somebody who knows the inner anatomy of the trans can make
a better guess at which bearing it is including the throwout bearing.

But that's about all the first dealer can also do with his "several
days investigation", not much more than you could do. There's no
electrical tester you can plug in or anything.

so, what to do? first, as the guy said, check to see that there's oil
in the trans (if not, all bets are off), if there is, change it just
as a random cheap effort. Probably that won't fix it, but you never
know. Use Honda MTL; I don't remember when the manual switched from
specifying plain old motor oil to Honda MTL, but the transmissions
didn't change, just Honda's recommendation.

If that doesn't fix it, which it most likely won't, you will need to
have the transmission removed to find out anything more; costs a
couple of hundred just for that labor, at which will point you will
most likely find the clutch (and throwout bearing) needs replacing,
but even if it isn't entirely shot at this age you absolutely should
replace it.

Now comes the hard part. If you're lucky it will be obvious that some
piece of the clutch is making the noise; liek the throwout bearing is
all worn or is wearing into the clutch fingers, etc. Otherwise, you
have a choice; put it back together with the new clutch and see if
that fixed it, or put more money into making sure the trans is OK. I'd
probably just put it back together and hope, but again, i spent a lot
of money swapping transmissions in and out for a while, there, so my
advice is not good. It helps if you have a mechanic you can trust to
advise you whether you should get a new used trans.

As for the two mechanics you mention, the first one is clearly not
giving you good info compared to the second one. that doesn't mean
he's not a good mechanic, often they just want you to go away and
leave it to the pros; but like I said, the chance of it being "chipped
gears" is very tiny, the chance of it being actual transmission is
less than clutch, and if they have it for several days, all they're
going to do is start it up and lsiten, drive it around and listen, and
maybe try changing the trans oil.

A new clutch isn't a hell of a lot less than a used transmission, btw,
like a couple of hundred. so, you're most likely looking at about $500
for a clutch replacement, parts and labor. If you're unlucky and do go
the used trans route, you're probably still under a grand.

 

The noise is a worn out clutch release bearing. Since its a LOT of work
to replace it typical protocol is replace ALL the clutch components.

-SP