98 Accord won't start

Hoping for some help from the car gurus out there. I have a 98 Honda
Accord V6 EX with ~138,000 miles on it (lots of highway miles during
commutes for six years). My work situation changed recently and for the
last six months my car has sat in the driveway frequently idle for a
few days at a time and then when used usually only for short trips.
Suddenly today, out of the blue, the car won't start. The car had sat
idle for about 1 week.

Symptom:
Turn key, starter continuously runs (rei-rei-rei-rei-rei-rei-rei) but
the engine doesn't turn over. Lights all bright and don't seem to dim
when the starter is running. I waited a few hours and tried again to
same effect.

I just had the alternator, battery, ignition coil all replaces 1.5
years ago for a different problem so I doubt any of those have failed
(the dealer told me they changed the ignition switch too as a recall
item but it never showed on any documentation).

I've never had any problem starting the car before, no hard starts even
in cold weather.

So what might be the problem? I'm not an expert by any stretch of the
imagination but could it be the starter motor? I don't think it's the
battery ot any of the electical system. I'd like to have some idea
whats wrong before I have it towed to be looked at.

All help is greatly appreciated!

-MikeK

 

It is hard to imagine how the "rei-rei-rei" sounds without knowing how many
'rei's per second are heard
Seriously, is it a lot faster than normal? The lights not dimming sort of
indicates that the starter is not drawing the same amount of current as it
would under normal circumstances. This could be because it is not engaging
the flywheel.
Are your belts spinning along with you trying to start?

If the belts are not spinning and it is a lot faster than normal, there's a
good change your starter is bad. (actually, the relay on top of the
starter).

Remco

 

================================

I think you mean to say it's turning over (the engine), but not firing.
Read the part in your owner's manual about 'flooded engine'(how to start
your engine). You've probably got a leaking injector, which bleeds the
pressurized fuel out of the fuel rail overnight, flooding the engine.
Hold the pedal to the floor (per the manual) and it will start. It's got
a ton of gas, now it just needs you to hold the throttle open so it can
get some air. Techron injector cleaner will often fix it (the dribbling
injector). Our odyssey did it, and I ran two tanks of Gasohol through it
and it never happened again.

'Curly'

 

Thanks for the quick replies guys!

The "rei-rei-rei"'s don't sound any faster than usual to me, I'll check
the belts to see if they're turning.

I'll also give the flooded engine trick a try, here's fingers crossed.

I just read something about the EFI relay, any chance it's that?
(although no check engine light)

-MikeK

 

Curly,

I tried starting this morning and it still wouldn't fire. I did the
flooded engine thing (throttle halfway) and bang started up. It sounds
like you were right. I'll throw some injector cleaner in there and
hopefully that will clear it up. Thanks again for your help!

-MikeK

 

Curly,
Great post. I was going to suggest changing or repairing the main relay
but your advice made much more sense in this case. Keep up the great work.
Jason

 

---------------------------------

I'm quick to share that answer because I got a WRONG ANSWER a couple
years ago when my Odyssey wouldn't start one Monday morning, and ended
up replacing the Timing Belt (it was due anyway). After the belt was
changed it still wouldn't start. When I finally looked in the OWNER'S
MANUAL, I found the answer. Now I keep the owner's manual in the house,
sometimes even in the BATHROOM, so at least _somebody_ will read it.

'Curly'

 

Doubt it is is the main relay. Don't bother checking the belts:
Since it fired up, run some cleaner through it as Curly suggested - I bet
he's right and it will clear up in your case.


Remco

 

This is one of the most humorous yet intelligent posts I've seen on a
newsgroup in a week.

 

Sadly I reported success too quickly. I got the car to start, filled
the tank and added the fuel injector cleaner. Everything seemed fine
for a few days ( a few hard starts but then it would fire up and run ).
Now the car is a brick, no amount of playing with the throttle will get
the engine to fire. I read up on the "main relay" PGM-EFI that seems to
cause multiple headaches for other honda owners. Listening for the
"clicks" in the relay I noticed that there was only one click (turning
the key to the on position) and that even on close listeneing the fuel
pump didn't seem to be running for the two seconds (and no followup
"click" for the fuelpump shutoff). I thought for sure that was the
problem. After much effort I was able to remove the relay, pop the case
off, reflow the solder and reconnect it. All three clicks are now
present and I hear the fuel pump run on switching thekey to the on
position. I though for sure that would fix the problem, but alas no.

All the start attempt drained the battery so I thought maybe if I jump
started it I could get it to run, but that didn't work either.

The engine cranks but will not fire. Now I smell a lot more gas when
trying to start it. Any other ideas before I have it towed to a
mechaninc?

 

You tried the flooded engine trick again, right?

Have you checked for spark at the plugs?

If you don't know how, ask or google. It's not hard.

 

likely flooded.

and the weak battery isnt helping the PGM-FI work properly.

 

wrote in

So you get a "chugga-chugga-chugga" at the speed you normally expect to
hear?

Aha! The plugs are unable to fire the mixture, or are not firing at all.
Have you checked for spark? An engine only needs *three things* to fire.

A tip: HOLD the gas pedal TO THE FLOOR. Crank engine and KEEP CRANKING for
at least a minute. What happens?

Please report updates here. There are more possible causes of your
symptoms.

 

I don't think it's just flooded. I've tried to start... smelled gas...
let it sit 20+ minutes and tried again with no success. I've also tried
the different throttle positions (gas pedal halfway / fully depressed)
with no success mutliple times. The PGM-FI relay seemed like it wasn't
working properly and then, once I reflowed the solder on the terminals
on the little PCB the clicks+fuel pump for two seconds came back, I
doubt that would happen with just a weak battery. But it seems like
either that wasn't the issue, or it was part of some kind of cascade
failure.

One other thing I forgot to mention, I have an OBDII scanner and the
computer has no error/scan codes.

 

A few times, early in the cranking, the car would sputter a bit as if
it was trying to fire, but only right at the start of the cranking, and
usually only when I first tried after letting it sit for a while.

I've been getting the cranking at the normal speed every time I tried,
until recently. I think all the start attempts finally are wearing the
battery down and the cranking was starting to slow. I tried, earlier
today, to start with a jump from my girlfriends car. The speed of the
cranking came back up to normal during the jump but the engine still
won't fire. (I tried holding the gas pedal down during the jump attemp
too, no dice). I though about maybe getting an AC wall plug car battery
charger so that I don't loose my battery during all this "sitting idle"
and starting attempts, thoughts on that?

I've tried holding the gas pedal to the floor before (as directed by
Curly and the starting the engine section in the owners manual) but I
haven't tried cranking for as long as you suggest. The owners manual
suggests only cranking for fifteen seconds with ten second intervals...
should I really try a full minute?

Like I posted above, I also have an OBDII scanner and the car computer
doesn't have any error codes (or pending codes).

I followed the "fix your PGM-FI" section on your FAQ yesterday, nice
site BTW. I'm almost positive the relay wasn't clicking any more than
once (key to starter on position) and no fuel pump sounds. After
following the procedure there (reflowing the solder joints) all three
clicks are clear and the fuel pump kicks on for the two seconds but it
didn't fix the problem.

I'll check spark tomorrow, although I don't have a garage and it's been
raining continously here for four days.

Another thing I tried at the very end (after "fixing" the main relay)
was turning the key from off to on a few times (letting the fuel pump
run a couple times). I thought maybe that after sitting for a while the
"fuel rail" needed to be re-pressurized. (I'm grasping at straws)

I'm not a car person but I'm learning fast.

Thanks!
Mike

 

Me too I'm learning too.
I had problem of cranking but refused to turn over. I did wait while
for the fuel
pump to turn on. That got to work that I thought that was the my
problem.
Now I doubt that is the problem. Now i realize the problem alarm. The
alarm
was not turned on when I turned the key so there was nothing going to
starter...
I found the way to turn on the alarm in order to start right way so
that I do not
have to wait...I hope this is only starting problem I've...I did suffer
with starting
problem ))

 

I tried cranking for a minute as suggested, but the battery is
definitely discharged now... The speed of the cranking starts out
slightly slower than normal and then gets progressively slower and
slower... chug..chug..chug....chug.....chug......chug............chug I
couldn't hold it for the full minute.

I'm having a hard time checking for spark since I don't have an
assistant today to crank the engine for me while I look. I can try
jumping the car again but I don't want to wreak havoc on my girlfriends
car (especially since she's trying to sell it now).

I might just bite the bulelt and buy an automatic battery charger from
the auto store. It looks like they're about $30 and probably not a
terrible thing to have hanging around.

Another thing I just remembered to note
The battery, alternator, ignition coil, and ignition switch were all
replaced about 1.5 years ago due to an unrelated problem.

 

I don't remember if this was brought up before, but have the spark plugs
ever been changed at all.

 

I did regular dealership maintenance on the car for the first 100K
miles or so, so I assume they replaced the plugs at some point. I could
be wrong though, I'd have to go back and check my maintenance records.

 

Check also for whether the distributor cap and rotor, spark plug WIRES, and
distributor's ignitor were replaced recently.

Were the alternator and distributor coil put in 1.5 years ago both OEM?

I had a distributor coil installed by Firestone in 2001. Failed a couple of
months later. They ruled it "defective" and replaced it under warranty.

You might be able to rig up a plug wire so that you can just barely see it
when you're sitting in the driver's seat, so you can check for spark by
yourself.

Dunno what a battery charger costs, but if it's under $20, I think it might
be worthwhile to have and may save you having to go to a shop for this
particular no-start problem.