98 Accound burning oil

My son has a 98 Accord EX 4 cylinder that has always burned some oil
since we've bought it.

It now has 132K miles, and has started going through more oil.

It hasn't had much maintenance so I'm wondering if it might be
something besides bad rings? It seems to run strong, it just burns
oil.

Is this common with Honda's? Any ideas? I notice a lot of black
residue in the tail pipe, so I don't think it's leaking it.. although
I suppose it could be doing both?

Thanks for any advice.

 

Valve guide seals can cause oil burning. A compression test should give
you a rough idea of the state of the rings. I see a lot of Hondas with
soot on the bumper over the tailpipe, but it's usually those with fart
can mufflers owned by kids who drive them hard all the time.

 

Is replacing valve guide seals on a 4 cylinder Accord an expensive
job?

 

It depends on how it's done.
If the compression is good, you may be able to change the stem seals without
removing the head. I've used a tool that connects to your air compressor to
pressurize the cylinder and keep the valves in place while changing the
seals.
However, if the valve stems have any nicks, scratches or unusual markings on
them, the head will require removal. A much bigger job.

 

What weight oil are you using? I've found that older Hondas burn
little oil when I use 10W-30, and much more if I use 5W-30. (I know that
it shouldn't happen, but it does, dammit.) I would expect even more if
you use 0W-30. The Camrys, though, don't seem to do that.

 

it's highly unlikely oil seals are needed - that's more relevant to cars
with seals that are submerged in oil in the head. hondas are not.

regarding diagnosis, it sure would help us though if you said how much
it's burning.

 

Ah! Sorry.. he drove it over my house yesterday and it was down about
2.3 quarts, and it had been about 5K since last oil change.

It's been going through oil for quite sometime and seems to run well
in every other way. I had the timing belt changed and the front end
bushings changed at 100K miles. I can't remember that it's ever been
tuned up.

Someone mentioned a PVC valve stuck open could cause issues like this?
Engine looks clean, so it's not spewing oil out of the top of the
engine.

 

yes, check [replace] the pcv valve.

fyi, honda's spec is that if it's using less than 1 quart per thousand,
the engine is ok.

don't know if this will work for you, but fwiw, after the cleaning action
of a couple of years using mobil 1 oil, my civic's oil consumption is down
to <1/4 quart per 5k where it used to be 2+ quart per 5k. allegedly it
can help remove carbon from the rings so they can seat and seal better
again.

 

I think he has been using 5W-30, getting it changed at a local service
station. But, he's a grad student working toward his PhD in English
Lit (which means = poor as church mouse) so he skimps on things like
car maintenance until it's a problem, and then I usually step in and
help out. Which is cool and I don't mind a bit.. I just didn't realize
he was going through quite so much.

To the previous poster, I use Mobil 1 in both my motorcycles.. 15-50W.
I'm a big believer in it to the point I even run it in my lawn tractor
and snow blower. I'll take the suggestion and start using M1 too if I
can get this resolved.

Thanks all for the suggestions.

Steve L

 

i don't think the oil on its own burns less per se, but the cleaning
action -> less consumption thing seems plausible to me because initially,
consumption was the same, but it's declined over time, and the old gunk in
the engine has noticeably diminished.

my main reason for using it though is better fuel economy and longer
service interval. in my application, it'll do 15k between changes, easy.

 

There's another trick I've used to do this, turn the crank so the
cylinder being worked on is not at TDC, then feed a bit of rope in the
spark plug hole letting it pile on the piston, then slowly turn the
crank until the rope is squished gently up against the valves and it
will keep them from falling into the cylinder.

 

The problem with skimping on car maintenance is that $20 saved today can
turn into $200 you have to spend next month. Oil changes are a whole lot
cheaper than engine rebuilds.

 

Hi,
Bought new? Replaced PCV? Checked compression on each cylinder?
Blow down test is even better. Tried heavier oil?

 

There was a problem that was fairly common in the '70's, but not so
much now: a main crank oil seal would get a piece missing, and slowly
rotate. When the gap was oriented up, no oil leak. When it was down, the
engine would dump oil at highway speeds. I had at least one Maverick do
that. Unlikely but possible.

 

Bought used about 5 years ago, it had 50K and was a one owner when we
bought it.

Haven't checked compression yet, but will this week.

PVC hasn't been replaced but will do that quickly.

Haven't tried heavier oil.

I have a good mechanic looking at it this week, it needs a full going
through. It hasn't been tuned up in at least 80K miles. I also noticed
the rear end sounded noisy and I wonder if a bearing isn't going in
one of the rear wheels, he had one fail a year or so back.

So I'll get the car checked out stem to stern and then let you guys
know about the oil mystery. I'm thinking it very well maybe the PVC as
to my knowledge that has never been replaced.

It has also lost a lot of paint on the hood and roof and trunk, so it
looks lousy too. I'm thinking to pimp it out and get it painted and
put some money in it, if I can fix this oil issue, because the
interior is excellent (grey leather) and the body is in good shape
except for the paint and it still rides well or seems to.

In Massachusetts where I live if you buy a new/used car you not only
have to pay sales tax, you have to pay excise tax each year and it is
expensive if you buy a newer car. It just makes sense to put some
money into a good car if you can get it to run reliably.

 

A thought came to mind this morning. In the olden days quite a bit was made
about the potential for compression rings to get glued into the piston
grooves by deposits. Whether it actually happened or not I don't know, but
on the chance that is related to the oil consumption you can try running a
can of Seafoam engine cleaner (http://www.seafoamsales.com/motorTuneUp.htm
available at NAPA) through the engine. My son has used it in his '94 Acura
and is very happy with the improvement in drivability (half the can siphoned
into the intake and half in the tank). Be warned - the engine produces
clouds of white smoke for several minutes.

Mike

 

The Seafoam is a thought..

Before I do that it seems very reasonable to change the PCV valve.
Could a failure in one of these really cause that much oil
consumption?

 

Any oil drips under the car after sitting all night? Get
under your car and look at the oil pan. Run a finger along
its surfaces. Is it covered with oily grime? Same for right
beneath the distributor.

A malfunctioning PCV valve can overpressurise the crankcase
leading to leaks at the oil pan gasket, where the dizzy
shaft penetrates the cylinder head, etc.

Get yourself an OEM PCV valve (not an aftermarket one) in
any event. The PCV valve really should be changed at least
every ten years, AFAIC. Should help fuel mileage, too.

 

eh??? to change a stem seal??? no dude, you don't need rope in the
cylinder and no, you don't need to change the stem seals.

 

yes. it's supposed to maintain crank pressure in a certain range. if
crank pressure is too low because of a malfunctioning valve, oil vapor
gets sucked from the engine into the intake manifold and burned.