A moment of ranting

So Honda finally fixed the 2005 Accord Hybrid's flashing engine light
and the neck-snapping lurch at start. I have replaced the toy stereo
system with a simple and clean sounding one. I have given up hope of
averaging more than 25 MPH in my expensive hybrid. I've learned to
downshift manually when need acceleration with better than a two second
response time. I finally have a car I can live with, right? No.

Today I'm changing the oil and decide to rotate the tires while I have
the jack out. The lug nuts on the driver's side rear wheel are
unusually loose but it looks OK. I do the 15K mile inspections and
notice unprotected ABS wiring near the wheels. When it comes time to
put the wheel on, the bolts feel very soft on the wheel that was a
little slack. I could make over a full turn after the initial
resistance. I take the wheel off and make sure there's no crud in
there. It's clean. I put the wheel back on and it's still very soft.
One bolt goes two revolutions after resisting, which really can't be
good. I begin to remove the tire again and a bolt snaps off! Damn!
Now I have to convince a dealership that I was in fact using nothing but
the included tire iron and my bare hands, and I wasn't trying to torque
the crap out of the bolts. I'm sure they'll tell me that the
unprotected wiring is normal too.

I really regret selling my 97 Civic HX and purchasing a HAH.

That's the end of my rant, at least until a rock or a bit of road debris
smashes the ABS wiring.

 

You're story illustrates a good but overlooked point in this guy's tired
old spongy gray matter.

New is not necessarily better.

The hybrid in its present form is hardly better than the Civics of the
early 1980's where some models got 40 mpg (city) and 50+ mph (highway).
They were simpler, cheaper, and just as long lasting as today's
offerings. And they were strictly gas burners.

Hybrids won't come into their own until battery technology advances to
efficient plug in charging to supplement the internal combustion engine.

I hope that you take your dealer to task for the lug nuts/bolts. With
regard to mileage... You're simply a victim to the politically correct
mantra that often can be compared to the biggest lie of all..

Good Luck!

JT

 

You omit that the Civics of the early '80s were not anywhere near as
safe as the current crop of Civics. Nor were they as roomy or
comfortable or powerful.

Wikipedia has this to say about the old engine:

"The EM displaced 1.5 L (1487 cc) and was an SOHC 8-valve CVCC engine.
Early versions produced 52 hp (39 kW) @ 5000 rpm and 68 ft.lbf (92 Nm)
@ 3000 rpm, while later ones upped the output to 63 hp (47 kW) @ 5000
rpm and 77 ft.lbf (104 Nm) @ 3000rpm. All used a 3 barrel carburetor.

* EM1
o 1980 Honda Civic, 52 hp (39 kW)
o 1981-1983 Honda Civic, 63 hp (47 kW)"

The 2006 gas 1.8 L produces 140 HP and delivers 30/38 mpg in a vastly
superior car. The 1.3 L hybrid produces 110 HP and delivers 50/50 in
the same vastly superior car.

Hardly better? The engines were simplier and cheaper, I'll grant you
that.

Some EEs have modified their Priuses to do this. Voids the warranty, of
course.
http://calcars.org/priusplus.html
Saw some numbers that say recharging at residential, off-peak rates is
the equivalent of less than $0.50/gallon. Perhaps your wish will be
granted in a few years. But I suspect the big energy corporations are
doing all they can to prevent this and instead impose some more
expensive alternative.

 

wrote in

I'll give you that the new cars are safer than the old ones. The new
ones though weigh 5-800lbs more than the old ones so they NEED large
engines to motivate them.

Original poster wasn't looking back to the '80's. He's saying his '97 HX
was better than the hybrid and I totally agree with him on that. Easier
to maintain, the same or better mileage. Perhaps not quite as safe but,
it has driver and passenger airbags and the upgraded side impact
protection required on all newer cars. The suspension on all civics
newer than 2001 is inferior to that of the older civics. Honda cut costs
by switching to struts but, that didn't make the suspension better.

In the middle years, 2001-2005 Honda had lost it's way. It was a company
run by bean counters. With the new Civic and Civic SI, I hope they're
going back to their roots.

 

Yeah, but I was replying to Grumpy.
The OP is correct.

snip The suspension on all civics

Struts don't necessarily make a suspension worse (eg BMW, Porsche) but
I agree that Honda's previous Civics weren't fun to drive.

I think Honda cars have suffered so Honda could invest in light trucks.
I agree that the new Civic line is excellent. Probably the best value
Honda/Acura offers although low-end Accords also offer excellent value,
IMHO.

 

wrote in @i39g2000cwa.googlegroups.com:

I agree with you on the truck thing. The problem with Honda is their trucks
just aren't that great. My wife has an MDX and sure, it's fine on trips
but, it's a soulless vehicle which, I would never buy again now that I've
owned one. The handling is squirly. The ride mediocre at best. My F150 and
the previous Expedition's I've owned were altogether better at being an SUV
than the MDX is. The AWD system on my last Expedition was superior to that
in the MDX. Supposedly the MDX is AWD but, I have yet to notice any torque
transfer to the back. In slick conditions it just pushes badly
(understeers).

I've looked long and hard at the Ridgeline too. I've been conditioned by my
Civic to look kindly on Honda's. It's ugly and as a truck, it's a failure.
The one thing I need in a truck is a big bed. The Ridgeline bed is tiny.
It's overpriced for what you get too. Probably explains why the local Honda
dealer can't give them away.

 

Turn them over and you'll see an Odyssey minivan.

Blasphemy!
Can you believe that POS won truck of the year?
Can you believe that Honda let the NSX, Prelude, S2000, CRX, etc.
languish or die so they could build it?

Hey, what do you know? Another moment of ranting!

 

I'll take the higher gas mileage of the old version any day and accept
personal responsibility for the *lack* of safety features of today's
cars that simply contribute to defeat natural selection of the dumbed
down mooing masses...

JT

 

If you cannot lay a 4x8 sheet of plywood in the bed, it ain't a
worthwhile truck...

JT

 

Back to their roots? That would be motorcycles and CVCC cars.

 

That's back to infancy. They've had cars here in the states for what, 30-35
years now? The 90's were the golden years for Honda. The NSX, the Integra-
R, various hatches the B16 and B18 motors. Car's made by enthusiasts for
enthusiasts. All the enthusiasts have left for other brands. Now with the
Civic SI they might be coming back a little. It's a hot car.

Before you tell me about the S2000, yes it's a nice car. It's also $35K US.
Priced out of range of the average joe.

 

but considering that it spanks many $60k+ cars handsomely in
performance, it's not such a bad deal!

 

Local honda dealer says that this is the last year for the S2000. Any truth
to that?

 

i expect so. production of all engines of that type is being dropped.

 

ive got "free" electricity in my garage, since its a condo its part of
the HOA fees. sure would be nice plugging into a 110v AC outlet for an
overnight trickle charge, if i had a hybrid.

or are the modified ones only good with a 220v feed?

 

itll take the jazz for that to happen. better yet? a hybrid jazz! honda
was way ahead of the game when they introduced the wagovan in the
mid-late 80s. sad, because when i see one, i know an updated, Si version
of that might be a big seller today.

 

Well, you can keep the hybrids. Extra weight, extra cost, extra complexity,
marginal if that fuel economy improvements. You know the fuel economy
improvements they do give won't cover the additional cost of being a hybrid
right? So, you spend as much more for being a hybrid as the fuel would
cost not driving a hybrid. Honda gas motors on the new cars are already
ULEV (Ultra low emissions). So, I question whether you're even reducing
emissions by that much.

 

thats not the big thing, either. being able to use the oft-empty carpool
lane while solo is the big draw for some people. the additional cost is
negated by the $3000 tax break.

you arent. but buy buying the cars an making them attractive through tax
breaks and carpool lane privileges, it gives the automakers (at least
the SMART ones) incentive to keep doing R&D.

if they hadnt caught on like they have, where would we be? still talking
crazy shit about fuel cells, etc. hybrids arent going away, and they
just keep getting better.