Accord 91 Alternator job

I got it changed for $291 US this weekend during a road trip (no time to
compared prices; didn't want the car to break down). Did I get raped or did
I get a fair price? (Austin, TX)

 

Dpending on the mechanic's rate and the type of replacement part he used, you
probably did on the high side of OK.

The job takes at least an hour, maybe 1.5 by book time standards. A Honda
replacement can cost upwards of $215 (according to SLHONDA.COM), aftermarket
I have found to be about the same or more (at least here in Canada for a
Bosch unit). Bosch offers a 5 year warranty up here, that is probably the
reason for the premium. You probably don't want the cheaper rebuilts, they
only replace what is broke, and not the items that could be worn.

However, you take your life into your hands anytime you pull this kinda thing.
Understandable if you are in the middle of a roadtrip, it had to be done, but
you should avoid this kind of problem like the plague by doing Preventative
Maintenance. Mechanics can smell desparation from miles away.

t

 

I am a big believer in PM - so what kind of PM do you do on an
alternator?

This same thing happened to me years ago - still remember the glint in
the eyes of the AH when I came in the crooks place. He used a BS
rebuilt in mine.

 

For the archives: Did they install an OEM alternator? Was
this a dealer who did the job?

I think you got a great deal. I paid $332 ($96 for labor +
$236 for the part) for an alternator job in a small city in
the midwest in 1999 at a dealer. With 2% inflation, that
would be about $374 today.

T L's prices are accurate from slhonda.com and Majestic.
Dealers usually mark up prices a lot.

 

The 91 alternator is mounted high up. You can even
replace the brushes on the side of the road for 5USD.

 

What do you (anyone?) suggest for alternator preventive
maintenance?

 

i imagine the brushes might be able to be replaced, somehow. maybe the
diodes or rectifier or something? but basically thats just rebuilding it
yourself.

could also take a voltmeter reading before going on a long trip. still,
thats no guarantee, and not really PM, either.

 

I had an alternator go just after the dealer's mechanic overtightened
the drive belt - still in warranty - replaced at no charge. Killed
another alternator when I drove it with a belt slightly slipping - that
is an absolute no no - burns them up - replace those drive belts. In
terms of doing something to replace brushes - thought alternators had
diodes and not brushes - but what do I know.

Oh and speaking of health of alternators - a couple of winters ago
watched a good samaritan jump start some lady's Taurus - well sparks
and smoke came out of her alternator - told her to go directly to her
garage - do not turn off the engine. Jump starting is a dangerous
thing - I always disconnect my battery if I have to do that.

My sum total knowledge of alternators.

 

The alternator on my 98 civic went at 190000kms. However, had I been a
little more mindful, I could have reduced the cost of the repair. The
alternator had been making a noise for quite some time already.

The reason I say PM is important is that the bearing on my alternator was
shot (you could hear it on startup, and feel it when the belt was off the
pulley), and the belt was originally overtightened (maybe thats why it was
shot). Because it was shot, my theory is that the alternator shaft was off
center, and the rotor started digging into the stator assembly, making the
original alternator unsalvagable. (The stator is the copper wiring on the
outside of the rotor, and it costs like $100-150 to replace). So had I not
been lazy and done the bearings especially, and the brushes (since I was in
there already), I coulda saved some money.

Brushes are $5 from any auto electric place, and $10 from Honda. And the
bearings can be gotten at any reputable bearing shop, for about a buck or 2 a
piece. Get the good german ones, not the shitty chinese ones. (just an
opinion on the bearings, I have no imperical evidence to show one is better
than the other).

What I ended up doing was going with a used Denso/Mitsubishi (OEM) alternator
from the wrecker for $90. Came with a 30 day warranty, and only had
118000kms on it, so it should be good for a while. Has been for the last
45000kms or so.

t

 

somehow.

This sounds like a good "exploration" project for when my
current alternator hits 80k miles or so of usage, like this
summer. I certainly remember seeing a lot of posts at the
two honda newsgroups about DIY-ing the brushes.

I see from the parts sites and my Chilton's that there will
be both a regulator and a rectifier assembly (I know;
"duh"), each of which is well over $100. Whereas the whole
alternator (rebuilt?) goes for under $200. From other
evidence, I'm betting it's rebuilt, and the only new items
on it are new brushes and bearings.

A quick google search turns up some sites saying regulator
failure is the main reason alternators fail. But many other
sites say the brushes wear down too short, and worn brushes
are the main cause of alternator failure. Some sites and
newsgroup folks mention lives of around 80-100k miles for
brushes. Of course, there must be a guesstimated time limit,
as well.

I see brushes (two) and bearings (front and rear) go for
about $6 and $16, each, respectively, at the usual online
OEM honda parts sites. So I'd like to see if I can locate a
shop, along the lines of what T L says, that sells these.
Again, as an exploration; for fun and learning.

My original alternator died (or parts within it died) at
106k miles and 8 years. I don't know whether they put in a
remanufactured alternator or a whole new alternator, but
I'll ask what my current local dealer does next time I'm
there.

All comments read, Butch Burton, TL and Mike. Thanks for the
input.

 

I'm in the middle of this, now. Brushes (carbon/metal brush on
braided wire) can be had for as little as $4, but after removing and
viewing the brush assy, I just went ahead and bought whole new assy
(holder, springs, new rubber seal, etc) for $25 from dealer.

nb

 

dealer.

Okay, I see the "brush assembly" at the Majestic online
parts site. Not sure what or where this rubber seal is, but
I guess when I get it apart next year sometime that will be
obvious.

Did your alternator fail? Or are you on some kind of PM
schedule for it at this point? How many years and miles were
on your alternator, its brushes, etc.?

 

This on '87 Si w/ 240K miles. Me not org owner, so I assume this not
org alt. I'd say this alt has at least 130K miles that I know of.
The problem was partial failure. Alt no charge at below 4K rpm, but
charge ok above 4K rpm. Removal of brush assy revealed badly worn
brushes w/ no contact at all from one brush. All other tests in Helm
manual ok. I haven't re-assembled/re-installed alt yet.

nb

 

My theory on alternators is that little components wearing down can lead to
primary failure of expensive parts.

IE if you brushes wear down, they will cause voltage fluctuations which are
hard on the regulator. So if you leave it too long, brushes wearing down
could cause an imbalance and be responsible for the regulator failure.

OR

My example of the output shaft bearing being shot, causing the rotor to spin
off center and dig into the stator assembly. Small part leads to big failure.


Also consider that pretty much any time you do an alternator, if your battery
is more than 3-4 years old, you might as well replace it, cuz a bad battery
can cause a new regulator to go bad.

The alternator is not designed to charge a battery, and its not designed to
power a system that is being dragged down with a battery that is not at full
capacity.

my two bits....

Terry

 

Terry, sounds good to me. Have you a maintenance schedule
that seems to have been effective you for your cars'
alternators? Like replace brushes and bearings every 100k
miles/7 years? Replace battery every five years?

 

I guess setting up a rule that says replace at XXXX number of miles or a
certain time period would likely prevent failures. Thats how Honda does it
on their new vehicles and it seems to work pretty well.

However, in the case of the charging system, I think we can be a little more
scientific.

Pull the brush assembly out of the alternator if you think that it is
surviving on borrowed time. Check the amount of brush material left. If
theres not much, replace the brushes.

In my experience, anything after 160000kms would fall into that category.
While you have it apart, inspect the bearings for wear. Any play and it
should be replaced. For the $10 or so in parts, I would say its well worth
it. Getting your battery load tested after its on 'borrowed' time is
probably not a bad idea either. Just ensuring a battery is in good shape can
prevent major failures of the charging system in the future.

Just a note that if its the first time you are pulling out your alternator,
it may take longer than it should. Now that I know what I am doing on my 98
civic, i can have it out in less than 15-20 minutes. (no exaggeration).
Disconnect the battery, jack the car up, undo the tensioner, disconnect the
power lead, unplug the harness, undo the pivot bolt, and remove the
alternator bracket attached to the engine block (2 bolts). It practically
falls out into your lap (or onto your head depending on whether you are
expecting it or not)

Once its out, the only trick is to ensure you have a method of removing the
pulley bolt on the alternator. Impact works really well. Then you can use
an impact screwdriver to undo the housing bolts, and your in business.

 

which sites? if they have em, id just order from them. not even sure id
bother with the bearings, as long as they turn smoothly and i didnt
overtension the belt. so $12 to renew an alternator sounds like a good deal!

 

www.hondaautomotiveparts.com (a.k.a. Majestic Honda) and
www.slhonda.com

like a good deal!

I think it'll be a good experiment for me. See you next
summer on this one! I will have my digital camera on the
workbench and will try to document, for other amateurs.

Terry--Thanks for the elaboration!