Accord transmission problems - best approach?

My expectations are for the whole life of the car, 300 thousand miles or more.
Properly mainained transmission should never go bad in my opinion
Are my expectations too high for honda?

 

Yeah, I'd forgotten all about Mr Operations Research.

 

Your expectations are too high for anyone.

While most of them will last that long, mechanical failures do occur,
and at that age/mileage, it is hard to tell the cause, especially if
you don't know the maintenance history...

 

Your expectations are too high for anyone.

While most of them will last that long, mechanical failures do occur,
and at that age/mileage, it is hard to tell the cause, especially if
you don't know the maintenance history...

 

OK. I mistyped the model year in my original post. It's a '99, not a
'98. Purchased with 41K miles on it, as a certified used car from the
same dealer that's serviced it since then. The maintenance intervals as
specified in the owner's manual for severe conditions have been followed
since then (it gets well over 90 degrees here for several months out of
the year).

Since the tranny fluid changes have been performed at a Honda dealer, I
assume they're using Honda ATF. But this is the same dealer whose
service department aggressively pushes powerflushing the transmission
whenever the topic comes up. I have always refused to have it flushed,
but I did have them do a drain-and-fill (once, not 3x) about three
months ago when they said the fluid didn't look too good. It was due for
a fluid change at 120K (we're only at about 115K now), but I didn't want
to risk waiting for the 120K service if the fluid was showing its age.

I finally had a chance to drive the car today to get a better feel for
what was going on, since the extent of my wife's description of the
problem so far has been "it's shifting funny". For the first part of our
trip today, it drove fine, with no problems. About midway through our
errands, after driving maybe 15-20 miles, I noticed a rough downshift -
much rougher than normal, almost enough to chirp the tires. By the time
we made another couple of stops, it was very hesitant to upshift. The
engine would rev higher, but the car would barely move, and when it did
finally upshift, the upshifts were very abrupt and jerky. Downshifting
was similarly delayed and rough - the car would come to a complete stop,
and sit for a couple of seconds before the final downshift would occur.
It eventually got to the point to where it was almost undrivable, and I
wasn't sure we were going to make it home, but we did. Oh, and the CEL
has yet to come back on since it was reset.

My wife mentioned that the problem seems to be worst in the afternoons,
which are obviously the hottest part of the day. I was hoping to buy a
little time to research the problem further, but based on our drive
today, the car is unsafe to drive with the transmission acting like
this, so I'm going to have to do something sooner rather than later. My
father suggested taking it to a transmission shop to see if it can be
repaired as opposed to swapping it out for a remanufactured tranny, but
I'm more inclined to start with calling Honda's US customer service
department. Since the model year is outside the scope of the warranty
extension, and since it would've been past the warranty period at this
point anyway, I don't expect a free ride, but I don't think some sort of
consideration is unreasonable. With proper maintenance, there's no
reason a transmission shouldn't last for the life of the car.

Dave

 

OK. I mistyped the model year in my original post. It's a '99, not a
'98. Purchased with 41K miles on it, as a certified used car from the
same dealer that's serviced it since then. The maintenance intervals as
specified in the owner's manual for severe conditions have been followed
since then (it gets well over 90 degrees here for several months out of
the year).

Since the tranny fluid changes have been performed at a Honda dealer, I
assume they're using Honda ATF. But this is the same dealer whose
service department aggressively pushes powerflushing the transmission
whenever the topic comes up. I have always refused to have it flushed,
but I did have them do a drain-and-fill (once, not 3x) about three
months ago when they said the fluid didn't look too good. It was due for
a fluid change at 120K (we're only at about 115K now), but I didn't want
to risk waiting for the 120K service if the fluid was showing its age.

I finally had a chance to drive the car today to get a better feel for
what was going on, since the extent of my wife's description of the
problem so far has been "it's shifting funny". For the first part of our
trip today, it drove fine, with no problems. About midway through our
errands, after driving maybe 15-20 miles, I noticed a rough downshift -
much rougher than normal, almost enough to chirp the tires. By the time
we made another couple of stops, it was very hesitant to upshift. The
engine would rev higher, but the car would barely move, and when it did
finally upshift, the upshifts were very abrupt and jerky. Downshifting
was similarly delayed and rough - the car would come to a complete stop,
and sit for a couple of seconds before the final downshift would occur.
It eventually got to the point to where it was almost undrivable, and I
wasn't sure we were going to make it home, but we did. Oh, and the CEL
has yet to come back on since it was reset.

My wife mentioned that the problem seems to be worst in the afternoons,
which are obviously the hottest part of the day. I was hoping to buy a
little time to research the problem further, but based on our drive
today, the car is unsafe to drive with the transmission acting like
this, so I'm going to have to do something sooner rather than later. My
father suggested taking it to a transmission shop to see if it can be
repaired as opposed to swapping it out for a remanufactured tranny, but
I'm more inclined to start with calling Honda's US customer service
department. Since the model year is outside the scope of the warranty
extension, and since it would've been past the warranty period at this
point anyway, I don't expect a free ride, but I don't think some sort of
consideration is unreasonable. With proper maintenance, there's no
reason a transmission shouldn't last for the life of the car.

Dave

 

So, you do not know how the car was driven, or exactly what was put in
there before the 41K mark...

It is possible that the car may have been running non-Z1 for quite
some time...

Also, is the radiator full and the overflow at the MAX line?

It sounds like there may be a problem with the cooling system or the
flow of tranny fluid to the cooler. Or, you may benefit from adding a
cooler to the car, like would be added if you were planning on towing
things. Clearly the heat is a factor...

 

So, you do not know how the car was driven, or exactly what was put in
there before the 41K mark...

It is possible that the car may have been running non-Z1 for quite
some time...

Also, is the radiator full and the overflow at the MAX line?

It sounds like there may be a problem with the cooling system or the
flow of tranny fluid to the cooler. Or, you may benefit from adding a
cooler to the car, like would be added if you were planning on towing
things. Clearly the heat is a factor...

 

Your expectation (IMO) is unreasonable for any brand car, including Honda, equipped with
an automatic transmission.

At what point do you take full responsibility and own the whole car?

 

Your expectation (IMO) is unreasonable for any brand car, including Honda, equipped with
an automatic transmission.

At what point do you take full responsibility and own the whole car?

 

I've had the same same problem on my 01 V6 Accord. I had about 120K
miles on mine as well and I was unaware of the warranty extension
(somewhat to my dismay when I did find out later). I do not think the
extension was large enough in terms of miles to cover it anyways. At
first the dealership wanted about $3500 but then they matched a $2800
quote from a small transmission repair shop.

I have a friend who has an Accura plagued by the same transmission
problems and having received a similar extension. He's had to replace
the transmission multiple times. The last time he had to replace it
he was outside of the extension, but after some negotiations, the
dealership convinced the manufacturer to provide the parts for free
and my buddy only had to pay for labor. That's the path I'd take if I
had to deal with this issue again.

Gabor

 

I've had the same same problem on my 01 V6 Accord. I had about 120K
miles on mine as well and I was unaware of the warranty extension
(somewhat to my dismay when I did find out later). I do not think the
extension was large enough in terms of miles to cover it anyways. At
first the dealership wanted about $3500 but then they matched a $2800
quote from a small transmission repair shop.

I have a friend who has an Accura plagued by the same transmission
problems and having received a similar extension. He's had to replace
the transmission multiple times. The last time he had to replace it
he was outside of the extension, but after some negotiations, the
dealership convinced the manufacturer to provide the parts for free
and my buddy only had to pay for labor. That's the path I'd take if I
had to deal with this issue again.

Gabor

 

you're /way/ too used to being ripped off by detroit garbage whose
design spec /is/ 100k. honda /used/ to make automatic transmissions
that went 300k no problems. that's why people bought them. failure at
detroit intervals puts honda at detroit quality - not good for owner
loyalty.

 

you're /way/ too used to being ripped off by detroit garbage whose
design spec /is/ 100k. honda /used/ to make automatic transmissions
that went 300k no problems. that's why people bought them. failure at
detroit intervals puts honda at detroit quality - not good for owner
loyalty.

 

Wasn't 1998 the first year of that design of Accord that went until
2002 (1999 was the first year of a new design Odyssey minivan)? If so,
wouldn't it have similar issues as the 1999-2002 Accord (perhaps worse,
being the first year of a new design)?

 

Wasn't 1998 the first year of that design of Accord that went until
2002 (1999 was the first year of a new design Odyssey minivan)? If so,
wouldn't it have similar issues as the 1999-2002 Accord (perhaps worse,
being the first year of a new design)?

 

Yeah, it's said that Honda cares much more about their customers.

I recall reading about the weaker differential bearings disintegrating
and plugging up the strainer in these transmissions. This starved the
clutch packs of ATF and they burn up in no time.

The plugged strainer/filter is a reason, aside from hard part failure
plugging it, why I like to change ATF much more frequently. And for
transmissions with replaceable strainers/filters I do those too
12K-15K miles, and wipe the worn clutch/steel materials off the pan
and magenets.

 

Yeah, it's said that Honda cares much more about their customers.

I recall reading about the weaker differential bearings disintegrating
and plugging up the strainer in these transmissions. This starved the
clutch packs of ATF and they burn up in no time.

The plugged strainer/filter is a reason, aside from hard part failure
plugging it, why I like to change ATF much more frequently. And for
transmissions with replaceable strainers/filters I do those too
12K-15K miles, and wipe the worn clutch/steel materials off the pan
and magenets.