Advice on replacing 94-97 Accord muffler? Dealing with rubber hangers?

Seth says...

Sorry, I didn't say that right. What I would do is jack up
the rear end one side at a time, and put concrete paving
stones under the tires, and lower the car onto them, with
the front wheels blocked. But I can probably only get six
inches or so of extra room doing it that way, not like being
able to work under a lift. Never having done this before, I
just don't know if that's enough room to work with.

 

Still a very bad idea.

There's a guy who posts in rec.autos.tech who's in the middle of restoring
an '80 Civic. He had the car up on concrete blocks. It fell off while he
was working on it. Good thing he wasn't under the car at the time.

Do the job properly, or don't do it at all. If you're not prepared to buy
and use the correct tools, don't do the job.

The more room the better. Six inches will have you gnashing your teeth in
frustration for lack of room.

And raising a car is best accomplished with a proper jack and stands.

If this is your first time, don't let it be your last as well.

 

Still a very bad idea.

There's a guy who posts in rec.autos.tech who's in the middle of restoring
an '80 Civic. He had the car up on concrete blocks. It fell off while he
was working on it. Good thing he wasn't under the car at the time.

Do the job properly, or don't do it at all. If you're not prepared to buy
and use the correct tools, don't do the job.

The more room the better. Six inches will have you gnashing your teeth in
frustration for lack of room.

And raising a car is best accomplished with a proper jack and stands.

If this is your first time, don't let it be your last as well.

 

Also never use concrete blocks. Not being rebar reinforced, they can crack.
Jack stands are cheap enough.

I doubt you'll get enough lift out of the scissor jack that the car comes
with. It's only designed to get the tires just enough off the ground to
change a tire.

Like Tegger says, either get the right stuff to do the work or don't do it
at all. If you're not going to be doing much more work to the car yourself,
it's probably cheaper to pay a shop to do the work than to buy all the right
equipment to do the job safely and correctly.

 

Also never use concrete blocks. Not being rebar reinforced, they can crack.
Jack stands are cheap enough.

I doubt you'll get enough lift out of the scissor jack that the car comes
with. It's only designed to get the tires just enough off the ground to
change a tire.

Like Tegger says, either get the right stuff to do the work or don't do it
at all. If you're not going to be doing much more work to the car yourself,
it's probably cheaper to pay a shop to do the work than to buy all the right
equipment to do the job safely and correctly.

 

Yes. I pay for car repairs only when I don't think any new tools I
might need will ever pay me back. Alignments, tire-busting, machine
work, and recently a rear wheel bearing replacement on a BMW E46 (new
tools-$1,000!; repair-$300). Very little else, ever. If you buy decent
tools and don't lose them, it doesn't take too many jobs to build a set
that will serve for most jobs without having to acquire many (or any)
new tools.

You will find things much easier with a real floor jack. More
importantly, though, you need jack stands. They are not optional.
NEVER, EVER get under a car supported only by a jack. For years, there
was a newspaper article on my garage wall with the headline, "Car falls
off jack, killing town man" that I would point to when a friend thought
he should crawl under a car without setting jack stands. It was a real
convincer. Cars are heavy and you are fragile. If one falls on you,
you will be severely injured at best. Do NOT screw around here. The
$150 you save is not worth risking your life--and it's a sizable
fraction of the cost of a decent jack and pair of jack stands.

For exhaust system work, ramps are cheaper and just as safe. They are
somewhat easier to use as long as they slope gradually enough to avoid
catching the front bumper cover on them when you back off. However,
they can't be used to remove a wheel and are less versatile in general.

You will avoid undue stress on the remaining flanges if you unbolt
things first, and then take off the hangars. Don't forget to get new
gaskets with the new pipe. Have spare nuts and bolts or studs on hand
in the right sizes. A propane (or better, acetylene) torch is a big
help for stubborn nuts. Frozen ones are easy to remove when red hot,
and if you have to drive out a stud it is much easier if the flange is
heated until it goes clear.

 

Yes. I pay for car repairs only when I don't think any new tools I
might need will ever pay me back. Alignments, tire-busting, machine
work, and recently a rear wheel bearing replacement on a BMW E46 (new
tools-$1,000!; repair-$300). Very little else, ever. If you buy decent
tools and don't lose them, it doesn't take too many jobs to build a set
that will serve for most jobs without having to acquire many (or any)
new tools.

You will find things much easier with a real floor jack. More
importantly, though, you need jack stands. They are not optional.
NEVER, EVER get under a car supported only by a jack. For years, there
was a newspaper article on my garage wall with the headline, "Car falls
off jack, killing town man" that I would point to when a friend thought
he should crawl under a car without setting jack stands. It was a real
convincer. Cars are heavy and you are fragile. If one falls on you,
you will be severely injured at best. Do NOT screw around here. The
$150 you save is not worth risking your life--and it's a sizable
fraction of the cost of a decent jack and pair of jack stands.

For exhaust system work, ramps are cheaper and just as safe. They are
somewhat easier to use as long as they slope gradually enough to avoid
catching the front bumper cover on them when you back off. However,
they can't be used to remove a wheel and are less versatile in general.

You will avoid undue stress on the remaining flanges if you unbolt
things first, and then take off the hangars. Don't forget to get new
gaskets with the new pipe. Have spare nuts and bolts or studs on hand
in the right sizes. A propane (or better, acetylene) torch is a big
help for stubborn nuts. Frozen ones are easy to remove when red hot,
and if you have to drive out a stud it is much easier if the flange is
heated until it goes clear.

 

Cool! I'll definitely consider that if the car lives through its
current exhaust system.

Your choice. We can certainly agree that there is plenty of crap out
there, and that many, perhaps even most, aftermarket exhaust parts are
simply awful. Exhaust parts made of lighter-gauge tubing and sheet
steel, less-durable steel alloys, poor fit, etc., are almost epidemic.
Shopping purely on price is a mistake unless the car is unlikely to last
long for other reasons. There are only so many things a manufacturer
can do to take cost out of an exhaust system, and all of them are bad.

Funny! The only OEM part in my exhaust *is* the cat! But it won't last
through another A pipe and B pipe, as the flanges are nearly gone.
(Washers can be your friend, but there are limits. ;-)

I stopped buying Walker exhaust parts a quarter century ago. I don't
recall why, exactly, but for Hondas the Bosal pipes work well for me and
last a comparable amount of time vs. Honda pipes.

 

Cool! I'll definitely consider that if the car lives through its
current exhaust system.

Your choice. We can certainly agree that there is plenty of crap out
there, and that many, perhaps even most, aftermarket exhaust parts are
simply awful. Exhaust parts made of lighter-gauge tubing and sheet
steel, less-durable steel alloys, poor fit, etc., are almost epidemic.
Shopping purely on price is a mistake unless the car is unlikely to last
long for other reasons. There are only so many things a manufacturer
can do to take cost out of an exhaust system, and all of them are bad.

Funny! The only OEM part in my exhaust *is* the cat! But it won't last
through another A pipe and B pipe, as the flanges are nearly gone.
(Washers can be your friend, but there are limits. ;-)

I stopped buying Walker exhaust parts a quarter century ago. I don't
recall why, exactly, but for Hondas the Bosal pipes work well for me and
last a comparable amount of time vs. Honda pipes.

 

dude, on the one hand, you're casting pearls before swine. he wants to
use after-market, and clearly, nothing you say is going to convince him.
[here's the "unteachable" signal: he's prepared to fudge his numbers
to create "savings".]

otoh, he's pissing in the knowledge pool with this "just as good as oem"
bs, so it's good to point that out. just like you say, oem spec is
different and more stringent. there are some exceptions to this, but
for honda, exhaust systems is not one of them.

to anyone else reading, if you're driving detroit garbage, many times
after-market /is/ superior to oem - buy aftermarket and enjoy. but this
is not true for honda because honda oem standards are so high. honda
oem is guaranteed to work and be reliable. with anything else, you're
taking needless chances for trivial [if any] "savings", and if you don't
have all the facts about an after-market part available to you, you're
simply letting hope triumph over the logic and experience of others who
know what you don't.

 

dude, on the one hand, you're casting pearls before swine. he wants to
use after-market, and clearly, nothing you say is going to convince him.
[here's the "unteachable" signal: he's prepared to fudge his numbers
to create "savings".]

otoh, he's pissing in the knowledge pool with this "just as good as oem"
bs, so it's good to point that out. just like you say, oem spec is
different and more stringent. there are some exceptions to this, but
for honda, exhaust systems is not one of them.

to anyone else reading, if you're driving detroit garbage, many times
after-market /is/ superior to oem - buy aftermarket and enjoy. but this
is not true for honda because honda oem standards are so high. honda
oem is guaranteed to work and be reliable. with anything else, you're
taking needless chances for trivial [if any] "savings", and if you don't
have all the facts about an after-market part available to you, you're
simply letting hope triumph over the logic and experience of others who
know what you don't.

 

i second that story. my dad was working under a car like that, on a
sloping gravel drive one time. lucky for him i just happened to pull
into the drive way to see the car roll off the stand and fall on him.
it broke a bunch of ribs [ever heard ribs pop?] and he was out of action
for weeks. if i hadn't shown up when i did, he probably wouldn't be
alive because no one else was scheduled to be home for hours and he'd
have been pinned there unable to breathe.

ALWAYS use a proper jack, with stands, on hard level ground. and ALWAYS
chock the wheels.

heat works. however, there is risk of burning the underside of the car
unless you use a flame board. i've found impact drivers to be awesome
removing otherwise frozen rusted exhaust nuts in this situation.
absolutely awesome. no heat, no collateral damage, and otherwise
unshiftable nuts zip right off.

 

i second that story. my dad was working under a car like that, on a
sloping gravel drive one time. lucky for him i just happened to pull
into the drive way to see the car roll off the stand and fall on him.
it broke a bunch of ribs [ever heard ribs pop?] and he was out of action
for weeks. if i hadn't shown up when i did, he probably wouldn't be
alive because no one else was scheduled to be home for hours and he'd
have been pinned there unable to breathe.

ALWAYS use a proper jack, with stands, on hard level ground. and ALWAYS
chock the wheels.

heat works. however, there is risk of burning the underside of the car
unless you use a flame board. i've found impact drivers to be awesome
removing otherwise frozen rusted exhaust nuts in this situation.
absolutely awesome. no heat, no collateral damage, and otherwise
unshiftable nuts zip right off.

 

Not to be too critical, but proper jack stands are fairly cheap at any
auto parts store or harbor freight. They are a MUCH better idea than
concrete blocks.

And if you plan on doing work on your car more than just a couple of
times, it couldn't hurt to spend $100-$150 on a decent hydraulic floor
jack...

 

Not to be too critical, but proper jack stands are fairly cheap at any
auto parts store or harbor freight. They are a MUCH better idea than
concrete blocks.

And if you plan on doing work on your car more than just a couple of
times, it couldn't hurt to spend $100-$150 on a decent hydraulic floor
jack...

 

Why don't they lifetime warranty the parts when the car is new if they
do so for OEM replacements?

 

Why don't they lifetime warranty the parts when the car is new if they
do so for OEM replacements?

 

er, dunno. why don' t they give the car an unconditional, unlimited
"forever" satisfaction "we'll refund you in full" guarantee? do you
think "money" might be involved?

 

er, dunno. why don' t they give the car an unconditional, unlimited
"forever" satisfaction "we'll refund you in full" guarantee? do you
think "money" might be involved?

 

I'm not sure if anyone has mentioned this, but when I got a Honda
Lifetime Warranty muffler for my old Civic Si, and then wore *it* out,
the free replacement was much cheaper and didn't have much of a warranty.