(Anecdotal) Fit only getting 27 MPG?

One of my neighbors had a rear end collision,and the bumper bar underneath
was mounted on crushable spacer brackets;the bar withstood the crash,but
the spacers need to be replaced,along with the urethane plastic bumper
cover.(that was already removed when I saw the car)

 

But a lot of carmakers, esp the Japanese, responded quickly and designed
the *car* around the *bumper*.

My 1978 Corolla looked kind of awkward with these big bumpers 'tacked on'
to it, the 1980 that replaced it was nice!!

 

Where are you?

 

Canada is the only country in the world that has 5mph bumpers (and one
of only TWO countries in the world with any sort of bumper standards at
all).

There are no hydraulic rams anymore, just styrofoam atop a rigidly-
mounted steel beam. The rams were too heavy and were a casualty of CAFE-
derived weight-saving measures.

The whole point of the energy absorbing bumpers was to protect the car's
"safety systems" from damage in a collision at that speed. "Safety
systems" primarily means the headlights.

The automakers were able to have the US standard reduced in the mid-'80s
because they were able to show that there wasn't much practical
difference in damage between 2.5mph and 5mph bumpers.

2.5mph bumpers were supposed to be able to be less costly to produce and
carry less of a weight penalty.

Also, rigid bumpers tend to carry more of the stress of the collision to
the body shell, meaning damage is more likely to go deeper than just the
cosmetic. The old non-impact bumpers tended to keep the damage out at
the cosmetic sheet metal.

 

Upstate NY. Here's the as:

http://albany.craigslist.org/car/345979338.html

 

Well, I'm not the guy that you posted the question to about the RPMs at 70
MPH, but I purposely ran my Fit up to 70MPH, which is not easy to do on
L.A.'s crowded freeways, and the tachometer indicates around 3,400 RPM at 70
MPH. My Fit is a 5 speed manual transmission. Hope this helps.

Robert A. Cunningham

 

WHOA! Very Nice!

If I ever get a job that *PAYS* again, I might be interested!
Right now I'm doing newspapers in between and am looking for ~$250 beaters.

I certainly would NOT use that on a paper route!!!

And I know where mechanicsville is. I used to live in Pittsfield MA and
used to go to Lebanon Valley a lot. Also, many trips through to Toronto
ans Selkirk and Waterford when I worked for GE.

 

I don't think nhtsa has any weight or material requirements.

Maybe there are damage-at-speed requirements or even just ratings that
would make the composites look bad, until and unless a whole lot more
engineering was done as I suggested, with modular replacement.

Never look to the government to help, though they can always get in
the way, I just don't know what might be in place right now that's
relevant.

J.

 

damned straight! a good deal of the modern so-called "safety" agenda
does little more than add massive weight to a car, and thereby ruins gas
mileage. now, how many oilco lobbyists are there in d.c? a good deal
more than there are engineers experienced in matters of vehicle design
and safety i'll wager.

 

I don't know where that intermediate comment came from, but I'm the
one who suggested short gearing, and I think I'm right. A car geared for
freeway cruising in overdrive should be running at about 2500-2800 RPM
at that speed. This reminds me of something that Volvo pulled with the
140 series, way back when: you could get an optional overdrive unit for
the manual shift cars, but if you got stuck with a basic 4 speed, it
would be running 3500RPM at *60* MPH. Honda obviously wanted the car to
be responsive in 5th, even at the expense of fuel economy.

 

which is a crock.

also a crock. whatever the propaganda that was used to rationalize this
downgrade, it came down to one simple thing. corporate welfare.

5mph bumpers meant that the usual parking lot dings and bumps weren't
causing damage, thereby causing a sudden and substantial loss in revenue
for repair shops, and most importantly, manufacturers. so it was
reduced, with b.s. reasons cited like you say, but they're untrue.

and "deeper" damage, is by design, not accident. the initial yield
point of a crumple zone is easily designed, as is the point at which it
occurs. frod are ruthless exploiters of this. where's the first point
to buckle behind the bumper at 5mph on frontal impact? the bit /behind/
the radiator perhaps? no. the bit in front of the engine perhaps? no.
the bit behind the engine and suspension, where repair becomes
uneconomic? youbetcha. a necessity of design? no way. profitable?
amazingly so.

indeed. and they reduced write-offs substantially too. not as
profitable to detroit repair as it is to sell a new car.

 

A somewhat similar '86 was up on Ebay last month: nicer body but
original clutch, which must be worn. It was also the least desirable
color - white. The bidding stopped at $2500, the reserve not met. I may
go that route, and put up a 'buy it now' price of $1995. People don't
seem to appreciate these cars enough around here. Anyway, if anyone here
wants to buy it and restore it, or at least treat it gently, I'm
flexible on the price, as long as it's cash. The biggest problem with
the car is a driver's side rainwater leak that the dealers could never
even find, much less fix...

I'm still amazed that this 91HP car would outdrag the 125 HP EX
Sedan I replaced it with.

 

did you ever do the power/weight ratio calculation?

 

"should"??? rpm's depend on the ratio that best balances motor output
with the best point on its economy curve with the wind resistance/weight
for that vehicle. so the number varies from car to car, motor to motor!!!

rubbish.

 

If I ever get a real job again...

Can I fit a matress in it?

I have an '85 Corolla GTS (I'd like to put them up against each other...)
an '88 Supra
an '89 Mazda 626
an '89 Subaru GL Hatch
and an '05 Scion tC.

I got told "One more friggin car, and it better be something you can
*sleep* in!"

 

Consider the collisions you have known. Some of them have been at very low
speeds - parking lots, creeping traffic that suddenly jolted - but the rest
have probably been at much more than 5 mph. Except for the 1-2 mph dings I
can't think of a single collision I've ever witnessed that was under 15 mph.

Proposed bumper height standards were the rage for a while because bumpers
are pointless if they aren't used. Dunno if any standards were actually
passed. The big problem there was (and is) that rear end collisions are
notorious for bumper heights not matching. Each car in line nosedives as it
brakes, so the lead car raises its rear bumper and the following car lowers
its front bumper.

Mike

 

I had one of those! A 1970 145 with a 4-speed. Seeing the tach hover around
4000 rpm in top gear on urban freeways was strange. However, responsiveness
is relative....

Mike

 

I had a '71 145 for a while: rusty body but the best suspension I'd
even driven. No, it wasn't a powerhouse, but I still think they should
have done what they did with the P1800, and put a higher final gearing
on the 4 speeds... Another interssting factoid: the 4 speed P1800S was
faster than the 5 speed, precisely because they had a higher final
gearing, and would redline at 120 in 4th. The 5 speed would top out at
about 110 in 4th, and go no faster in O/D.

 

I've had several 5-10 MPH 'bumps' in cars with 5MPH bumpers, and was
glad of those standards. Instead of serious damage I just had to replace
a mounting bracket or two.

 

Maybe a kid's mattress. I've tried to sleep in the car, and it's
about 1' too short.

I think the GTS would win. 16 valves and, what, 120HP? vs 12 valves
and 91HP, in a body only slightly heavier. But with the set of
Bridgestones I ran for 9 years, I think my car would have won in the
corners.