At what point does a car become not worth keeping?

My $.02...

My 1984 Mazda 626, made in Japan...sold at 196,000mi in 1996...AC was gone
and the exhaust manifold had a hole somewhere. Engine was fine, 5spd was
still original. New waterpump, new alternator, boots a couple of times, and
the gas tank rotted out under the rear seat.

1983 Nissan Sentra, made in Japan...sold at 138,000 mi in 1983...ac perfect,
engine perfect, tranny shot...lost 5th gear, ran fine in 1-4, door handle
broke off (exterior). Plastic parts on this car seemed to rot.

Current ride: 1990 Protege SOHC (yes Virginia, not DOHC), currently 206,000
mi, original motor and tranny/clutch. AC replaced last summer, and of
course the famous rotting plastic radiators keep cracking. CV joints a
couple of times, alternator once, water pump once (165Kmi & 132Kmi). This
was also made in Japan. My only problem now is the platinum plugs seemed to
be seized. Ooops.

Regards,

Richard

My '76 Chevette was dependable up to around 70,000 then everything
broke...sold it at 132,000 with only the engine and 3spd auto still working.

 

[snip]

[snip]

Wow!

138k miles in less that a year...now that's something!

 

I think that Hondas and Toyotas are going to last well over ten years and 250k
miles before needing a new engine or transmission, based on posts here and
Consumer Reports.

In other words, I think you could start aiming for a ten-year life of a Honda or
Civic without worry.

You probably already know the following already, but just to reinforce the
thoughts:

I think answering your question precisely is difficult, since any car's
condition after a few years depends so much on how well it was maintained, how
many miles were put on it, and arguably the climate in which it was driven.

I believe Consumer Reports rates used cars (one way or another). Otherwise, I
think you're going to get pretty biased opinions from people here. For example,
I've owned only Toyota (used), Nissan (new), and Honda (new). I originally
started buying Japanese because of Consumer Reports and because even in the
1980s (when I bought my first car), people talked about how their little Datsun
or Honda or Toyota lasted forever compared to their American cars. I also worked
around a Subaru/Hyundai service shop for awhile. The Hyundais didn't last like
the Subarus and certainly seemed cheaply made (likewise, this was reflected in
the price). The Subarus didn't seem as reliable as my Honda.

I recall that every year when I check small cars in the April Consumer Reports,
the Honda Civics and Toyota Corollas always lead. Is the amount by which they
lead significant? Maybe not.

I think CR backs up the claim that Nissans are not as reliable as Hondas or
Toyotas.

 

That sounds exactly like my father's '94 Pontiac Grand Prix. Engine and
tranny were fine (surprisingly), but seemingly everything else had problems,
especially the alternator. The car was on its 4th alternator when he got
rid of it last summer at a mere 146,000km (91,000 miles). He now drives a
2004 Toyota Corolla.

I drive a Japan-built '93 Honda Accord automatic that now has 211,000km
(131,000 miles) on it. The only unusual issues I have had with it were a
shot fan blower motor and a defective distributor bearing. Other than that,
just regular maintenance. It's been a great car. Engine and tranny run
like new, and everything works.

 

This is all very encouraging.

Not that I really care (hence why I didn't ask), but so, do you think the
average lifespan of American cars even hits 6 digits?

 

With Toyota, 20 years or 400,000 kilometers is normal, unless the body is
allowed to rust out. I checked out an -81 Tercel with 800,000 miles, the
original engine worked fine. In my estimation, by the time a Toyota is old
enough that its depreciation curve is flat, the repairs are not expensive
enough to justify buying a different car. Then again, I don't spend much on
repairs because I do them myself. I'm more motivated by non-economic
factors, they simply don't make any cars that I like better than the one
that I already have. The way the used car marked is going these days, I'd
say a used car for $5000 is the best way to spend money. It's undergone
most of its depreciation at that point, yet for that amount you can get a
car that has been well maintained and has no rust.

 

100K is typical for even the worst budget cars.

150-200K is typical for domestics.

200-250K is typical for imports.

300K+ for a few like Volvo 240s and a few other specific vehicles.

Btw - the highet mileage car to date is a Volvo P1800. Over
1 million miles on the original engine.

 

Wow. Buy that car. You could get a ton of money from the factory
or a mention or something if it hits 1 million miles. IIRC, only
a dozen or so cars have ever hit 1 million miles, and 800K is very
close.

 

I agree. My '92 Corolla Wagon suits my needs just fine. They don't
make wagons anymore that are to my liking.

My needs are a small 'office on the road' that will haul my kayak
anywhere I want to explore.

Works great.

I like it.

I'm gonna keep it...<g>.

btw it 'only' has 160,000 miles on the clock...


Scott in Florida

 

I would concur with Joseph's reply- I had a '92 Plymouth Grand Caravan that
I sold last year with 152,000 mi on it- 3.3l with the infamous 4spd auto.
The engine and tranny were fine but...

waterpump at 75Kmi, AC system at 80Kmi-total replacement, the friggin rack
blew it's seals at 100Kmi (that's just plain bad QA from the
supplier)...interior headliner was coming unglued from the windshield back,
the auto lock in the side doors was wiggy and would lock/unlock whenever you
hit a bump, and any hard turns resulted in the doors locking and the little
warning chime going off.

Turn on the lights and the toilet flushes....

However it did a nice job negotiating Colorado logging roads such at one
point it looked like a Range Rover commercial with all the wheels canted in
different directions and at one low point scraped the front air dam and the
rear bumper at the same time.

 

Damn betcha!!

Ooops, shoulda been 1993.

That car would get better than 40mpg at 60 mph. Sigh.

Now I only get 35mpg @ 70mph with my Protege. Darn.
(Ya'll keep driving the SUVs to sponsor oil exploration, thank you! ).

 

Of course! You see lots of domestics with 100,000 or more. I can
think of *many* vehicles owned by myself and my brother and parents
that had over 100K before it was sold. I'm done buying domestics for
the time being, however.

 

Apropro to this discussion:

Do manual transmissions last longer than auto transmissions?

Does anyone know of a Japanese car with an auto transmission that went over 250k
on the original engine and original auto transmission?

 

For me the math is simple:

A car's time is up at the point at which the cost of maintaining/repairing
the old car approaches (or exceeds) the cost of owning a new car OR the
point at which the effort of maintaining the old car (lack of reliability
etc.) exceed the value of my time.

What mileage/age is that? Depends! I've got a bike that's 25yrs old, whose
value is now increasing, easy to maintain, fun to ride (moreso than a new
one - in a retro kind of way...). But I've also got a 10 year old car that
lacks the safety/reliability factors of a newer car which I am in the
process of replacing it with. Plus the older car is starting to need
substantial work (clutch, etc.). There's no magic number, or as Indiana
Jones said "it's not the year it's the mileage". Some folks kill a car in 5
years, some never do.

 

It's you.

On cars with FWD by the time a clutch needs replacing, the high cost
due to the need the split the front suspensions and remove drive
shafts can easily exceed the value of the car. eg plate £50 labour
£350, you have to know enough to search around for someone working
from a lockup or railway arch who will do it for £200 all in and not a
franchise chain or a main dealer (VW golf £800). DIY it's a pig of a
job.

A cam belt change on some FWD V6 engines like Fiat and Vauxhall can
also be very expensive. £1000 is quoted on one Fiat unless you can
find someone who can do it without taking the engine out. If they
don't have a receipt it hasn't been done.

 

It's only got to carry on going for the whole life of most other cars.

 

That's the difference between Japanese and the rest. Japanese
electrical systems keep going on and on, the rest don't. Every Ford
in the breakers yards round here has no steering column controls, they
all die at about 6-8 years old, one breaker has taken to stocking
pattern ones as he can't get good second hand ones. Cheap Bosch
electrics made down to a price for French cars die regularly - it's so
common there are firms making pattern ignition modules. I have heard
of a 7 series BMW that was up for sale for peanuts, the electrically
adjusted drivers seat had failed, cost £3000 and due to production
demand back order at factory was over 1 year, the owner wasn't going
to wait. If you didn't fit it how it was set it would be useless.

 

You are supposed to take them out once a year and look at them.

 

My 88 Dodge Dakota has 288,000 miles on it. Tough miles as an oveloaded
ranch truck carrying a cabover camper and pulling a horse trailer. I've
had to replace the A/C compressor, and I replaced the starter when it
probably only needed brushes, but I was in a hurry. Lots of trips for this
truck never left the yard at the ranch, so I might have had 20 engine
starts in a 10 mile span.

 

Manuals can last longer because you have control over how you
abuse it. They also cost less to replace/repair, let you
drive the car instead of it driving you, get better mileage,
and can technically be used with a completely dead clutch
to limp to a garage.

Automatics are the exact opposite. Money pits that just
save you a tiny bit of effort. A manual transmission
mated to a non-turbo inline 4 engine is probably the most
reliable combination you can buy. Something like a Corolla
or Camry with a manual transmission.

I personally wouldn't buy a car with 80-120K on it and the
original automatic transmission. But a clutch? Simple to
fix if it need to - or I can be easy on it and get a year
or two out of it. My record is 2 years on a nearly dead
clutch before I finally decided to replace it.

My automatic in my old beater Buick? Gave me 1/2 mile warning
before it stopped working and had to be towed.