Bad water pump

I've got a 1988 Honda Civic that a few days started making a strange noise.
It's a loud rattle..very mechanical sounding....coming from the engine. It is
definitely not the heat shield or something like that. Being somewhat handy,
I first tried to diagnose this. The engine seems to run normally but we
haven't driven any distance since the noise started. Long story short.....it
is dripping antifreeze from around the main shaft (where the belts are). This
is almost certainly a water pump failure, yes? The noise is getting
substantial now and I'm wondering if, even the car can be driven, should I tow
it to the dealer for the replacement of the pump and timing belt? I fear for
the TB en route if I drive.

Replacing the water pump is also essentially replacing the TB too. Is this a
job I might undertake? I have many tools and have done various car repairs
like alternator, brakes, valves, etc. This job seems much bigger but possibly
do-able. Thoughts?
Thanks
SS

 

Hard to say. It's not for beginners and I wouldn't do it myself. Some
say the hardest part is breaking loose the pulley nut. Get a service
manual and judge for yourself. Whoever does it, make sure they
install genuine Honda TB, pump and antifreeze.


A few questions for you:

How many years/miles since the last TB and/or pump?

How often do you change coolant?

What kind of coolant do you use?

 

On 31 Dec 2003 19:20:24 GMT, (SteadiSteve) wrote:

|I've got a 1988 Honda Civic that a few days started making a strange noise.
|It's a loud rattle..very mechanical sounding....coming from the engine. It is
|definitely not the heat shield or something like that. Being somewhat handy,
|I first tried to diagnose this. The engine seems to run normally but we
|haven't driven any distance since the noise started. Long story short.....it
|is dripping antifreeze from around the main shaft (where the belts are). This
|is almost certainly a water pump failure, yes? The noise is getting
|substantial now and I'm wondering if, even the car can be driven, should I tow
|it to the dealer for the replacement of the pump and timing belt? I fear for
|the TB en route if I drive.
|
|Replacing the water pump is also essentially replacing the TB too. Is this a
|job I might undertake? I have many tools and have done various car repairs
|like alternator, brakes, valves, etc. This job seems much bigger but possibly
|do-able. Thoughts?
|Thanks

Correct, do not drive it. Although I don't think it's an intereference engine,
so the worst would be you are stranded somewhere.
Changing pump & TB is not rocket science, but budget a weekend for it to be on
the safe side. Hardest part for me was getting the crank bolt out.

Rex in Fort Worth

 

I think the important stuff has already been said..

To answer the question of is is this a job you want to take on, take a
look at http://timingbelt.soben.com

I documented the one I did on my Integra. The '88 Civic might be a
bit easier because I think the engine bay is a little less dense and
it may only be SOHC, but the procedure is similar.

Good luck!

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You may want to look into joining AAIA (Automotive Aftermarket Industry
Association). Check them out at http://www.aftermarket.org

 

Sorry. Responded to the wrong thread.

 

I had to weld a 1" piece of stock to 2 cut off bolts to keep the crankshaft
wheel from turning while I removed the 17mm nut from the crankshaft pulley
wheel. Beyond that it is easy. You will want to put some marks on the old
belt and the cam wheel before you disturb anything ..it will save you time
on the new installation since you have all the marks as well as how many
"ridges" (on the timing belt) are between the pulley and cam shaft etc. Good
luck. wolf

 

you can go to autzone and buy a water pump for about $30.00 and a timing
belt for about $50 and do it yourself with a haynes manual, cost about
$15.00... get the book first and study it and then decide if you can do
it yourself.. or go to shop and pay about $400 for the job....

 

should I tow

Thanks to everyone for all the replies. I am not going to start the car at all
at this point. I called the dealership and they also strongly advised that I
tow it in. They said that the TB/water pump repair is routine and quoted $350
but the service tech was concerned about the noise that I described. Seemed
to think there could be more serious trouble. I guess we'll see.
The engine does run so the belt isn't snapped yet. But it is definitely some
kind of rapping/rattling mechanical noise.

I'm not positive. We bought the car used as a stop-gap vehicle at the time.
We expected to use it for a year. That was four years ago. I specifically
asked about the timing belt and the seller said that it had been replaced.
Although he couldn't produce the paperwork at the time, I do believe him to
this day. If I had to guess I would estimate about 5 years ago and 25000 miles
since the last TB change.

The radiator crapped-out about 2 years ago so it all got replaced. Haven't
changed it since and was starting to think about dealing with it.

I'm not sure what they put in at the time. My wife dealt with it
completely...I was crushed at work. Anything that I've added is stuff I just
picked up at the auto parts store.....you know Prestone and the like.

I haven't decided whether to undertake the job myself. I believe I can do it
after reading through a number of resources but I'm beginning to get busy with
life again.

Thanks to who replied. I'll post any updates here.

 

I've never heard a rattling sound from a failing water pump - could be that
a corroded impeller blade(s) is completely detached from the shaft. I
wouldn't drive it at all.

The job is not that difficult but as mentioned getting the crank pulley
bolt off is quite difficult. An '88 Civic will not have the 50mmm hex
"socket" for a pulley holder tool so the options are a 1) a *big* impact
wrench 2) a screwdriver jammed in the ring gear; or 3) an improvised tool
made from heavy angle iron and a couple of bolts through holes drilled in
it, which engage with the holes in the pulley. A strap wrench on the
pulley would likely damage the rubber damper built into the pulley.

I'd advise making sure you can get the pulley bolt off before doing any
further disassembly.

Rgds, George Macdonald

"Just because they're paranoid doesn't mean you're not psychotic" - Who, me??

 

I concur. That and making certain you have all the timing marks lined up
properly are the most difficult things about a timing belt change.

Myself, I would go rent a small compressor and 1/2" drive air gun. That
bolt will be off in a few seconds and the crank won't even turn.

 

That a promise, Tegger? Seriously.

I'm a weakling and so have to devise all sorts of tricks to get the foot-lbs. of
torque needed to break free bolts probably far less highly torqued than the
pulley bolt. (And doing so without somehow screwing up the timing mark
orientation.)

I have figured for awhile now that the pulley bolt would be immovable by me and,
in a rare moment, I'd become frustrated with my car maintenance efforts. You
pretty much guarantee a 1/2" drive air gun will do the trick without any
problems?

 

Yes it is.

Well, pretty much. There are times when even a half-incher won't do. When
that happens, the pros resort to an air hammer, and give the crank bolt
head a blow from that. In almost all cases you'll be fine with the 1/2"
drive. Sometimes you're OK with even an electric impact gun.

 

I'm willing to guarantee it (for whatever thats worth) will get it
off. I've done a few.. Its probably a 17 or 19mm socket + 1/2"
impact gun (A real one, IR, SnapOn, Mac, etc) with camshafts locked.

The crankbolt is on there at around 130 ft-lbs, but the impact will
take it off.

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Thanks, Barry and Tegger, for sharing your experiences.

I am tens of thousands of miles away from a new timing belt, but I am looking
over the Chilton manual's instructions for this as well as what online sites say
about it, and hoping I can do it on my own. If I can, this will be really cool.

 

Caroline,

If you're a weakling with an air tool, the law of 'Equal and opposite
reactions' dictates that you'll rip you arms off at the elbows (just
before the nut would have come loose) :-(

Just kidding. Use the breaker bar method instead. You hold on to the
underside of the bumper and pretend that the breaker bar is a diving
board. You spring up and down on it (body almost horizontal) until you
here a loud 'click', and the resistance melts away.

'Curly'

=================

--

 

Wow, you described to a "T" one of my general techniques for breaking bolts
free. ;-)

I need to study up on maintaining the proper orientation of the timing marks.
I'll take off the valve cover and then the timing belt cover and "get
acquainted" sometime soon when it's a bit warmer where I am.

Thanks for the caution re the air gun. I'll read up on it. Safety first. I've
seen the outcome of one too many accidents where it was not.

 

That caution is not realistic. An air impact gun is specifically designed
to allow any able-bodied individuals to safely exert forces otherwise not
possible for them. The gun will NOT "rip your arms off", as Curly does say
later.

An impact gun works by a series of rapidly applied shocks of very short
duration, which is why it sounds the way it does. The shocks are of too
short duration to overcome the mass of the engine, your arms or the gun
itself. If you were to use a normal hand-drill, which applies steady
torquing force, and you weren't holding on tightly enough, it WILL try to
twist itself out of your hands as it tries to spin, since the duration of
the torque application is the length of time you hold the trigger.

A major drawback of the breaker bar method is that, if improperly applied,
you risk damage to the engine mounts. There's a reason all garages use air
impact tools.

If you can swing the compressor rental (easy enough in most locales),
that's the best way to go, hands down.

 

I had mine undone at a friendly garage, using their 3/4" impact. My 1/2" did
squat.

Snugged it back up, and finished the job at home.

 

Wouldn't worry about the impact gun taking your arm off. It doesn't
happen. However, you should wear Z87 compliant eye protection because
things can go flying.

This is absolutely correct.

The other problem with breaker bars is that if you don't have a
vehicle lift, e.g. your lying on ground using jack stands, it can be
hard to get enough torque on it and maintain a good angle so that the
socket doesn't slip off. With the impact, you're hitting it straight
on. No chance of rounding the bolt off.

Home Depot rents them for a small sum. I'm not sure if you can rent a
1/2" impact wrench, if not, invest in one.

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