Bad water pump

Thanks all for the comments. I gather those of you who have an air impact wrench
(with an air compressor) use it a lot? I can see using it for my tire rotations
(with drive adapters as needed) but am not sure I'd use it for much else besides
the pulley bolt, so I am leaning towards rental. Comments welcome.

Still, I see several 1/2-inch air impact wrenches (rated well over 130 ft-lbs of
torque) at http://www.arizonatools.com/catalog/browse/2288-3069-3071/ . They
range in price from around $40 to over $100. If the $40 version is quite
adequate to do the pulley bolt, then with an air compressor I can see laying out
the money for my own. Is such an inexpensive impact wrench worth the money?

I realize a decent air compressor is another pile of dough. But I can find
plenty more uses for it. E.g. inflating car and bike tires and blowing clean
parts.

 

130 ft-lbs is about what you torque the crank bolt back down to. To get it
off you will need considerably more than that.

 

My guess is around 500 ft lbs to crack it loose, which is why some people
have to use a 3/4" drive to do the job. Sometimes low-force shocks are much
better than high-force steady pressure.

I was lucky with mine. All it took was a few back-and-forths with a 250lb
electric 1/2" and out she came.

My mechanic tells me he has encountered some bolts that refused to budge
even when assaulted with a 3/4 incher. That's when the air hammer comes in.
(I erred earlier when I said the air hammer came after the 1/2").

 

Just to double check, I gather that the direction of rotation of the crankshaft
is such as to tighten the pulley bolt.

Meaning when I go to re-assemble everything, if I get close to 130 ft-lbs., all
will likely be fine, as the torque on the bolt will slowly increase over time?

 

Rent one.. You'll wonder how you lived without it and will eventually
buy one. If you goto a regular auto repair shop, you'll find they
make extensive use of air powered tools. One reason is speed, if it
takes them all day to do a Honda timing belt or tire rotation, they're
losing money. The other reason is that if you can avoid putting your
body into sub-optimal situations (like where you would slam your head
or fingers into a piece of metal if the wrench slips) and thus, not
risk injury when trying to break a really tight bolt loose. You can't
use air tools on everything, but they will sometimes save you a lot of
time and potential hurt.

The impact wrench turns out to be very handy for tire rotations, brake
jobs, timing belt crankshaft bolts, unbolting suspension parts, and
sometimes when using gear pullers. I find they are sometimes really
handy on brake calipers where I have a straight on shot if I turn my
steering wheel. Otherwise, I'd have to use a ratchet or box end
wrench which increases the likelyhood I'll slam my fingers into
something.

Sometimes, but I feel generally not. With air tools, it seems like
you really do get what you pay for.. If you have an "Air Tool Store"
in your town, visit them and try out a cheap one (think Harbor
Freight) and an expensive one.. I've generally found the more
expensive one is going to be smoother and have effortless power. The
Ingersoll Rand IR231 is $85 at Maxtools.com and will more than meet
your needs.

__________________
Note: To reply, replace the word 'spam' embedded in return address with 'mail'.
N38.6 W121.4

 

Yup. That and rust are what make it such a hair-pulling exercise to get off
the next time.

If you're standing beside the driver's fender, looking across the car to
the passenger fender, the engine is turning counter-clockwise, or the top
of the timing belt going towards the front of the car. The new 1.7 engine
is the first Honda engine to run opposite to this direction.

If you have a torque wrench, it should be no problem getting the torque to
130 ft lbs. That's not really much, but it's hard to "feel" that amount of
torque unless you've done it a lot.

It's not a good idea to undertorque, especially if you don't really know
what you've actually tightened it to. The bolt CAN loosen off instead of
tighten. A neighbor of mine with a Prelude had just this happen. His bolt
came off on the freeway, as did the crank pulley. He was late getting home
that night...

 

Wait a second: The pulley bolt has a right-handed thread on a 1991 (and most or
all) Honda Civic(s), isn't it?

If so, and the engine rotates as you say, then the bolt will tend to be
unscrewed.

What am I missing?

Okay.

Barry, got your suggestion re air impact wrenches ('one gets what one pays for
in this case').

 

Thanks all for the comments. I gather those of you who have an air impact wrench

If you go the http://www.harborfreight.com you can find a range of air
compressors at a low cost. Even buying the compressor and the wrench you
probably pay less than having the dealer do the work.

 

I recommend a 120 ft-lb torque stick. They are simply an extension
between the socket and the impact wrench that limits the torque so as
not to overtorque the bolt. I think you can buy them individually,
but they are usually sold in sets.

__________________
Note: To reply, replace the word 'spam' embedded in return address with 'mail'.
N38.6 W121.4

 

Tegger,

I put the smilie face in there for a reason But just picture the image!

Anyway, I think the best advantage of the air tool (for those who can
get ahold of one) is not having to bolt the flywheel in place, or put
the 'rope in the hole' because the nut cracks free before the engine
really gets a chance to turn over. Not suitable if the belt is already
broken, though.

Isn't that bolt tightened to ~180 ft. lb. ??

'Curly'

=======================

 

FWIW in the late-model Helm manuals, Honda specifically says to *not* use
an impact wrench for the tightening of the pulley bolt - nothing is said
about using one for loosening but they do show the pulley holder tool and a
breaker bar for the purpose. Of course if you don't have a pulley with the
50mm hex "socket" built in it leaves a question of what is the best method
to go about things. I also would not put an impact wrench on my wheel nuts
- they should be hand torqued.

There have been estimates here of torque to get the pulley bolt off of
300-500lb/ft. Nobody seems to be sure if this is due to factory
over-torquing or longterm heat cycling - I've never done a 2nd TB
replacement on the same car so don't know what happens when you *know* it
was torqued correctly 90K miles ago. The first time I tried the job I got
a 150lb/ft electric impact wrench from Sears and it wouldn't budge - the
wrench casing broke in the attempt, so I got my money back.

Rgds, George Macdonald

"Just because they're paranoid doesn't mean you're not psychotic" - Who, me??

 

If you don't have the special Snap-On pulley holder, a torque stick +
impact seems to work fine. The pulley holder would have been nice,
but I use what's available!

The key is to not let the impact wrench deliver its full power to the
bolt, it has to be limited somehow.

__________________
Note: To reply, replace the word 'spam' embedded in return address with 'mail'.
N38.6 W121.4

 

The crank pulley is keyed to the crankshaft (don't lose that key!) The bolt
neither tightens nor loosens. My earlier comment was a mistake.

 

My guess is long-term heat-cycling combined with small amounts of rust
around the perimeter of the bolt head and washer

 

I realize my analysis was wrong, too. But for the key, the crankshaft would tend
to be rotating onto the bolt, tightening the connection.

Like you said, though, the key stops this.

Thanks, George, for tactfully pointing out my stupidity in thinking (in essence)
an impact wrench could be used as a torque wrench when re-assembling.

I see all the other posts on this. I'm hanging onto the thread.

 

And thats where my next favorite tool comes in, the air hammer. If
you have a bolt that simply won't budge with the impact gun, hitting
it straight on with the air hammer sometimes dislodges rust or
whatever has it welded in place. The air hammer is also great for (as
a last resort) removing wheel locks you don't have the keys for.
However, there are usually better options.

Lug nut removal with air hammer, see
http://www.mailsack.org/lugnut.JPG I made a mess of this one, but dig
in, and then angle the tool so it hits towards the left. Often you can
kick them loose and hand back them off using this method.

__________________
Note: To reply, replace the word 'spam' embedded in return address with 'mail'.
N38.6 W121.4

 

The reason I have heard for Honda's recommending against using an impact
wrench on the crank bolt is because the crank seals and bearings can be
dislodged and/or damaged. If that is true, I don't think I want to be
pounding on it too much with the air hammer.

 

You can't damage the crank oil seal by messing with the crank bolt. The two
are totally unrelated to each other and not even in the same place.

The air hammer is an accepted last-resort solution.

 

I used a 24inch chain wrench on the crank pulley and then carefully pad it
with some cardboard so it doesn't nick or bend the ribs on the pulley. That
holds it good while I use a breaker bar on the pulley bolt. Worked for
putting it back on and torquing it too.


CaptainKrunch

 

There are apparently a few aftermarket pulley holders, including Schley and
Snap-On. I'm not sure who makes the tool Honda sells - no mfr name on it
but FWIW it's bar is an effective 30" in length. If Honda says don't do
the impact wrench it makes me wonder if there isn't some reason, e.g.
possible damage to bearings or valve train from the hammering?... maybe
VTEC mechanisms are particularly susceptible?

Rgds, George Macdonald

"Just because they're paranoid doesn't mean you're not psychotic" - Who, me??