Battery cable came off!

Discussion in 'General Motoring' started by sharx333, Dec 11, 2006.

  1. sharx333

    sharx333 Guest

    Hi, was checking my '95 Civic 1.6L today. It was idling, and I heard
    the idle sound change: it seemed higher. I stepped on the gas a bit,
    and I heard a soft electrical "pop" near the stereo panel. I hurriedly
    shut down the engine, I found that the negative battery cable had come
    off! (It had a quick-release connection). I connected it, restarted and
    found everything working fine, even checked all the stereo functions,
    LEDs, and the ECU.

    I've read that the battery acts as a big capacitor to smooth out
    voltage spikes. The entire episode didn't take more that 10 seconds,
    but I'm worried... could there be any permanent damage?
     
    sharx333, Dec 11, 2006
    #1
  2. For an event like that, the damage will be clear immediately. The only
    electrical zaps I've seen delayed failures on were lightning strikes. I've
    dealt with about two dozen lightning strikes (one on a bizjet, the rest at
    communication sites) and have come to the conclusion that although the
    failure rate drops off after 6 months the equipment is often never
    completely right again.

    Sounds like you dodged the bullet. Congratulations!

    Mike
     
    Michael Pardee, Dec 11, 2006
    #2
  3. For an event like that, the damage will be clear immediately. The only
    electrical zaps I've seen delayed failures on were lightning strikes. I've
    dealt with about two dozen lightning strikes (one on a bizjet, the rest at
    communication sites) and have come to the conclusion that although the
    failure rate drops off after 6 months the equipment is often never
    completely right again.

    Sounds like you dodged the bullet. Congratulations!

    Mike
     
    Michael Pardee, Dec 11, 2006
    #3
  4. sharx333

    Matt Ion Guest

    You read wrong. The battery reacts too slowly to absorb spikes, it lives at 12V
    versus your alternator's typical 13.5-14.5V, your alternator wouldn't produce a
    spike unless it failed spectacularly, and having the terminal come off wouldn't
    cause a spike either.

    Ultimately, cars have batteries for one purpose: starting the engine. Once the
    engine is running, the alternator provides for all the car's power requirements.
    Yes, batteries are also used to power accessories when the car is off, but the
    only reason they're there in the first place is to crank the starter.
     
    Matt Ion, Dec 11, 2006
    #4
  5. sharx333

    Matt Ion Guest

    You read wrong. The battery reacts too slowly to absorb spikes, it lives at 12V
    versus your alternator's typical 13.5-14.5V, your alternator wouldn't produce a
    spike unless it failed spectacularly, and having the terminal come off wouldn't
    cause a spike either.

    Ultimately, cars have batteries for one purpose: starting the engine. Once the
    engine is running, the alternator provides for all the car's power requirements.
    Yes, batteries are also used to power accessories when the car is off, but the
    only reason they're there in the first place is to crank the starter.
     
    Matt Ion, Dec 11, 2006
    #5
  6. sharx333

    Tegger Guest



    It absolutely would. Damage may not always occur, but there will be spikes.

    The battery's secondary function IS to provide a buffer for the
    alternator's pulses. Connecting the cables together without the battery in
    between is dangerous to the car and should NOT be done. You could to that n
    1976, but not now.

    http://www.uuhome.de/william.darden/carfaq2.htm


    See the above link.
     
    Tegger, Dec 11, 2006
    #6
  7. sharx333

    Tegger Guest



    It absolutely would. Damage may not always occur, but there will be spikes.

    The battery's secondary function IS to provide a buffer for the
    alternator's pulses. Connecting the cables together without the battery in
    between is dangerous to the car and should NOT be done. You could to that n
    1976, but not now.

    http://www.uuhome.de/william.darden/carfaq2.htm


    See the above link.
     
    Tegger, Dec 11, 2006
    #7
  8. sharx333

    sharx333 Guest

    I'm happy to be wrong on this one, Matt. Thanks, guys. *Whew*.

    Mike: Lightning strikes, really? Wow.
     
    sharx333, Dec 11, 2006
    #8
  9. sharx333

    sharx333 Guest

    I'm happy to be wrong on this one, Matt. Thanks, guys. *Whew*.

    Mike: Lightning strikes, really? Wow.
     
    sharx333, Dec 11, 2006
    #9
  10. sharx333

    nm5k Guest

    I've taken two direct strikes to my antenna mast in the last 5 years.
    No damage at all. But...I ground out my feedlines when storms are
    in the area. The strikes hit about 15 ft from where I'm sitting at this
    puter. I was sitting here both times.
    My mast is very well grounded, with low resistance. When
    a strike hits that mast, it's very quiet. Sounds about like a light
    bulb being thrown on the ground, and then a loud sonic boom
    directly overhead. Pretty wild.. But I have no trouble at all. My
    puter doesn't even flinch. You can set the station up for full time
    use, even with direct strikes, "all broadcast stations are set up
    this way", but it takes a detailed installation using a ground
    bulkhead,
    careful single point grounding, suppressors, etc, etc.. I'm too cheap
    and
    lazy to mess with all that. :/ I just manually ground the feedlines at
    the
    bulkhead.
    As far as the car, yes, it's not good to unhook the alternator while
    running. You got lucky. Many cars would have done a toasting of the
    alternator in record time. You dodged the bullet this time it seems.
    If it did have a problem from doing that, it will usually be blown
    diodes
    I would think.
    MK
     
    nm5k, Dec 11, 2006
    #10
  11. sharx333

    nm5k Guest

    I've taken two direct strikes to my antenna mast in the last 5 years.
    No damage at all. But...I ground out my feedlines when storms are
    in the area. The strikes hit about 15 ft from where I'm sitting at this
    puter. I was sitting here both times.
    My mast is very well grounded, with low resistance. When
    a strike hits that mast, it's very quiet. Sounds about like a light
    bulb being thrown on the ground, and then a loud sonic boom
    directly overhead. Pretty wild.. But I have no trouble at all. My
    puter doesn't even flinch. You can set the station up for full time
    use, even with direct strikes, "all broadcast stations are set up
    this way", but it takes a detailed installation using a ground
    bulkhead,
    careful single point grounding, suppressors, etc, etc.. I'm too cheap
    and
    lazy to mess with all that. :/ I just manually ground the feedlines at
    the
    bulkhead.
    As far as the car, yes, it's not good to unhook the alternator while
    running. You got lucky. Many cars would have done a toasting of the
    alternator in record time. You dodged the bullet this time it seems.
    If it did have a problem from doing that, it will usually be blown
    diodes
    I would think.
    MK
     
    nm5k, Dec 11, 2006
    #11
  12. Yep - mostly mountaintop sites, two or three a year since I moved to the
    mountains. For some reason the storms prefer holidays and my anniversary!

    Mike
     
    Michael Pardee, Dec 12, 2006
    #12
  13. Yep - mostly mountaintop sites, two or three a year since I moved to the
    mountains. For some reason the storms prefer holidays and my anniversary!

    Mike
     
    Michael Pardee, Dec 12, 2006
    #13
  14. The problem is that alternators are very inductive. Without a battery,
    changes in current produce wild fluctuations in voltage; suddenly reducing
    the current draw by half should roughly double the voltage for a moment. At
    low current I would expect the alternator and regulator to go into
    oscillation without a battery to stabilize it.

    Mike
     
    Michael Pardee, Dec 12, 2006
    #14
  15. The problem is that alternators are very inductive. Without a battery,
    changes in current produce wild fluctuations in voltage; suddenly reducing
    the current draw by half should roughly double the voltage for a moment. At
    low current I would expect the alternator and regulator to go into
    oscillation without a battery to stabilize it.

    Mike
     
    Michael Pardee, Dec 12, 2006
    #15
  16. sharx333

    Jim Yanik Guest

    To clarify;the alternator generates AC voltage which is rectified to
    pulsating DC,and the ONLY thing that smooths it to reasonably pure DC is
    the battery. Otherwise,your car radio would be buzzing in tune with the
    engine RPM.
     
    Jim Yanik, Dec 12, 2006
    #16
  17. sharx333

    Jim Yanik Guest

    To clarify;the alternator generates AC voltage which is rectified to
    pulsating DC,and the ONLY thing that smooths it to reasonably pure DC is
    the battery. Otherwise,your car radio would be buzzing in tune with the
    engine RPM.
     
    Jim Yanik, Dec 12, 2006
    #17
  18. sharx333

    Jim Yanik Guest

    Try Central Florida,the lightning capital of the US.
    Also,the power density of Florida strikes are on average twice that of
    northern lightning strikes.

    I've had a pine tree about 300 ft from my apartment(tallest in the area)
    get struck(and killed) while I was watching. The bolt travelled right down
    the side,blowing a channel of bark off the tree. It took out a surge
    protector on my phone line and my modem,didn't harm the phones or the
    TeleZapper.
     
    Jim Yanik, Dec 12, 2006
    #18
  19. sharx333

    Jim Yanik Guest

    Try Central Florida,the lightning capital of the US.
    Also,the power density of Florida strikes are on average twice that of
    northern lightning strikes.

    I've had a pine tree about 300 ft from my apartment(tallest in the area)
    get struck(and killed) while I was watching. The bolt travelled right down
    the side,blowing a channel of bark off the tree. It took out a surge
    protector on my phone line and my modem,didn't harm the phones or the
    TeleZapper.
     
    Jim Yanik, Dec 12, 2006
    #19
  20. sharx333

    w_tom Guest

    The battery does as Jim said. But another condition called load dump
    could have created a destructive transient. Load dump is defined by
    the ISO to be as large as 270 volts on the 12 volt system. SGS
    Thompson defines it as 80 to 100 volts. But then better automobiles
    are designed with electronics that make load dump not destructive.

    Of course when you connect a computer to the car using a discount
    inverter, does it have load dump protection - or did you just save some
    pennies?

    The damage, if it occurred, would be complete in milliseconds.
    Apparently you did not suffer load dump damage. But you, like many
    others who replied here, should know of load dump and what automotive
    electronics (properly constructed) cost more money.
     
    w_tom, Dec 13, 2006
    #20
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