Black Box

Discussion in 'General Motoring' started by RA, Sep 14, 2005.

  1. RA

    RA Guest

    Does anyone have any insight on if the new Honda's have any black boxes
    (EDR - event data recorders) in them ? Specially the new Odyssey's.
    Ref - http://www.forbes.com/columnists/forbes/2003/0811/084.html

    TIA !!
     
    RA, Sep 14, 2005
    #1
  2. RA

    jim beam Guest

    all modern fuel injected cars have them. what question do you want
    answered?
     
    jim beam, Sep 14, 2005
    #2
  3. RA

    Guy Guest

    I thought this device is installed on all makes and models in North America
    today.

    I am pretty upset about this device in my car also.
     
    Guy, Sep 14, 2005
    #3
  4. RA

    Brian Smith Guest

    Why would the presence of this unit be upsetting to you? If you are involved
    in a collision, it has the power to remove all doubt about what your vehicle
    was doing prior to the collision. An onboard witness that can't be bought is
    a good thing.

    Brian
     
    Brian Smith, Sep 14, 2005
    #4
  5. RA

    RA Guest

    I am undecided its good or bad. First off, I want to know if the car has on
    it. Second, where it is and what interface does it have etc ?
    What data does it store day ti day ? If all EDRs are good, why don't they
    advertise it as one more thing your call has.

    For now, I want to conclude via some website my car has it or not... All
    American cars do but not sure about all imports ?
     
    RA, Sep 14, 2005
    #5
  6. My understanding is that it does not store data beyond a sliding window of
    several seconds. The data is kept in a circular buffer (it continuously
    overwrites the oldest data) which stops updating a moment after air bag
    deployment.

    They are the result of claims regarding wrongful deployment of air bags, and
    I believe they are usually integral with the air bag controller. The
    interface is proprietary. False air bag deployment is so dangerous that it
    needed to be documented whether the conditions warranted deployment, or if
    not, what could have caused the bag to deploy.

    Since air bags are mandatory, I think it's safe to assume every car made
    today and in recent years has one.

    Mike
     
    Michael Pardee, Sep 14, 2005
    #6
  7. RA

    flobert Guest

    As long as the data in it is 100% accurate. There is a culture in most
    western nations to believe implicitly 'technological data' recorded in
    consumer machines. Everything from data recorders, to the number logs
    on fax machines (for instance, obviously the 'from' number can be easy
    to falsify, but the 'to' can be harder'
     
    flobert, Sep 15, 2005
    #7
  8. RA

    Jim Yanik Guest

    Because it's more likely to be used against you than to aid you.
    The laws regarding access to the data are not well-established yet.either.
    (privacy issues)
     
    Jim Yanik, Sep 15, 2005
    #8
  9. RA

    Brian Smith Guest

    I drive tractor trailer for a living. Our trucks have company installed
    onboard recorders. They record every thing the truck does through the run,
    engine speed, road speed, distance travelled, overspeed of the engine the
    time of day that every happens, the number of stops and where we stopped and
    for how long. While some people say this is an infringement on their
    personal privacy, I look at it as being the same as driving with the boss or
    a police officer in the cab with me. If they were there, they would see the
    same things, but not as accurately as the computer recorder does and if a
    person calls the company and says that I was speeding along a stretch of
    road at a certain time, it can verify that it was or wasn't me. The same
    thing applies if the truck was involved in a collision.

    Brian
     
    Brian Smith, Sep 15, 2005
    #9
  10. RA

    flobert Guest

    Yeah, such tachographs are required by law in much of europe, and in
    the UK, a police officer can equest to see your tachographs for the
    previous (I think don't know) 24 hours
     
    flobert, Sep 15, 2005
    #10
  11. RA

    Doug McCrary Guest

    I tend to agree with Jim much of time, but on this I agree with Brian. I drive a
    school bus with a tach, and I frive right. If there's ever a question as to
    whether I was speeding (or even driving) at given time, I'm covered. I fail to
    see how a black box could be used to your disadvantage if you drive within legal
    limits.
    Of course, if you routinely break the law, you have three potential problems:
    Cops, the blackbox, and an accident.
    (Incidentally, my training says for every 300 violations, there are 29
    accidents, and 1 fatality.)
     
    Doug McCrary, Sep 15, 2005
    #11
  12. RA

    TeGGeR® Guest


    Actually, it's a fairly modern thing, and quite separate from the ECM that
    all EFI cars have.

    This particular black box keeps track of things like:
    Maximum speeds the car's operated at;
    Maximum RPM the engine was operated at;
    Maximum g-loading in corners or upon impact, and the direction of that
    loading;
    Whether seat belts are being worn;
    Etc.

    The tattle-boxes can do this in real-time, too.

    Much of the impetus for these things is liability legislation, which
    exposes manufacturers to considerable risk of huge punitive awards.

    It also comes in handy for warranty claims, too. If you blow your engine
    because you missed a shift into 5th at 84 mph, the black box will record
    the rpm as 9,500 at the moment of destruction, and your warranty claim will
    be denied on account of abuse. Absent the black box, they would have no way
    of knowing for sure how fast the motor was turning, and would probably have
    honored the claim.

    This last anecdote actually happened to very recently to Toyota, with an
    owner's new Celica.
    http://tinyurl.com/d2fpf
    Look at David's very first message on Aug12, then scroll down to the first
    message from Philip on Aug13.

    Frankly, I don't like the data recorders either. But there's really nobody
    to blame for them except the goverment and legal activists.
     
    TeGGeR®, Sep 15, 2005
    #12
  13. RA

    Brian Smith Guest

    We used to use tachographs here too. These are easier to use and harder to
    fool, the tachographs could be fooled by inserting the graph paper in
    backwards or putting a slight bend in the writing tip. The computer can't be
    read at the side of the road, it has to be downloaded at our Distribution
    Centre.

    Brian
     
    Brian Smith, Sep 15, 2005
    #13
  14. RA

    Brian Smith Guest

    It would be difficult to use it against you, if you were operating your
    vehicle within the laws of the road and with due care for the weather and
    traffic conditions.

    Brian
     
    Brian Smith, Sep 15, 2005
    #14
  15. RA

    Jim Yanik Guest

    I speed;so what? I do it where it's prudent,and police and politicians
    speed,too,A lot faster than I do. Politicians alone have harmed more people
    driving than I have.

    I believe we do not need more "Big Brother" monitoring devices.

    IMO,police could(and should) toss out their radar and laser guns,and
    concentrate on violations that really make a difference in driving
    safety,like RLrunning,reckless driving,improper lane changes,KRETP and
    STKR.

    But they "enforce" where the easy money is,and where it has little effect
    on traffic safety.
     
    Jim Yanik, Sep 15, 2005
    #15
  16. RA

    Brian Smith Guest

    Okay, what ever you think.
     
    Brian Smith, Sep 15, 2005
    #16
  17. RA

    Eric Guest

    I have no problems with it for commercial drivers. You are doing a job and
    these are essentially business records which reduce the liability of the
    business. However, for personal transportation use, I believe that this
    type of monitoring (or more importantly in the long run how the data is
    used) is unreasonable. Yes, I drive an older car from before OBD3 which, if
    I remember correctly, was the first to have the flight data recorder
    functionality and I'll also keep my car running for as long as possible.

    Eric
     
    Eric, Sep 16, 2005
    #17
  18. If you speed, you have no legitimate beef with monitoring devices. They
    simply hold you accountable for what you do.

    Personally, I stopped speeding decades ago. I did some simple calculations
    and decided it was a fool's game. Since then, I have only sped on one
    occasion. On a pair of 12 hour legs of a long trip we fudged the speed limit
    by 3-5 mph. It made about a half hour difference when we needed it most.
    Stretching that to 10 mph would have exposed us to more liability than the
    time gain would have justified - we were already going to arrive before
    sundown.

    Mike
     
    Michael Pardee, Sep 16, 2005
    #18
  19. RA

    Brian Smith Guest

    Speeding doesn't save enough time to justify doing it, compared to the
    losses that it may force a person to endure for the rest of their life.

    Brian
     
    Brian Smith, Sep 16, 2005
    #19
  20. RA

    Jim Yanik Guest

    They do nothing for SAFETY. In fact,they make it worse.
    All they are good for is raising revenue for the states and police
    departments,and even increasing employment in some PDs.(Ohio for one.)
    If it were not for speeding,we still would have the 55MPH NMSL.
    People voted with their right feet.
     
    Jim Yanik, Sep 17, 2005
    #20
Ask a Question

Want to reply to this thread or ask your own question?

You'll need to choose a username for the site, which only take a couple of moments (here). After that, you can post your question and our members will help you out.