Born suckers

Hey, Mike, maybe you haven't heard but since you were last posting
here Ford is flirting with becoming the #4 automaker. It is pretty
much a foregone conclusion that they will be passed by Toyota next
year if not this year.

GM still outsells Toyota but their market share has been eroding for
the last 30 years. Toyota's share is increasing rapidly as, to a
lesser extent, is Honda's. If recent trends were to continue for the
next four years, the 2010 sales leaders would be Toyota, GM,
Daimler-chrysler, Honda, Ford in that order.

 

I just looked at a Tundra on display - 80% American Parts Content.
The last 20% is probably the EFI Computer, Radio, and such like. It
would cost several hundred million to build an EFI Computer plant in
the USA, some very expensive production machinery.

There are a lot of "American Cars" out there with 10% American
content or less, made in Mexico at a Maquiladora plant. By that
logic, the Tundra IS an American Truck.

--<< Bruce >>--

 

Couldn't have said it better myself! (or, why didn't I think of that!
But I think you really nailed the situation down.

The only thing I will add is, while quality may be closing, I think the
Japanese are starting to make cars more cheaply so as to increase profits.
My Scion sounds downright tinny! The manufacturing seems to be good, and
the parts good, but I notice more clips and fewer bolts, and the like.

And, I think the Americans have come quite a ways up! I had a customer who
gave me a '92 Grand Voyager and a '94 Chrysler LHS. The Voyager had some
'problems'...but just kept running and running, and the LHS was a NICE
CAR! Had 160,000 when I traded it for the Scion, which I now see as a
mistake. I should have held out for $1,000, or just kept it! It was well
worth keeping. I kept the van because it was easier to work on, and I was
using it a lot, but I sure do miss that LHS...

 

I think that car quality is a moving target, as the Big 2.5 automaker's
quality inproves, so will the imports, I hope.
Playing catch up like the Big 2.5 are trying to do is an uphill battle.

 

Just a random question. I wonder how the Detroit 3 would be doing in
the domestic market if you took rental cars out of the mix? I remember
back when the Taurus was supposedly the top selling model in the US,
It turned out to be because one of the rental companies bought them by
the boatload. Without those sales, the Honda Accord would have been
the top seller.


Elliot Richmond
Itinerant astronomy teacher

 

Actually, a lot of people really like the Taurus. They bought the used ones
with like 15k or 20k mi on them cheap.

If you want to see how the Michigan 3 would do without rental sales, look at
how they are doing now. They are decreasing their sales to rental companies.

Ford is expected to lose it place as #2 this year in the US market, and
Toyota's car sales are nearly that of GM's.

Jeff

 

If only Detroit's products had a 150,000-mile bumper-to-bumper
warranty... then I might actually consider an American car again!

M

 

tizak wrote:

<giggle>

I've been hearing this argument for the past twenty-five years. Face
it, US industry does not have the flex and forward looking process to
accomplish it now nor did it have it then...

JT

 

My LHS was sure a good car! I really wish I hadn't given it up for a
measly $600...

 

I started buying cars in the 70's, and after my Mom's first Toyota, a '72
Corona, I was sold. I was going to buy a '73 Celica, but it had been hit,
so I went with a '74 Corolla 1200 (HA! It was so inexpensive, I was a
junior in High School with a Brand-New car!!!)

Never looked back...

 

it's almost /worth/ buying a taurus if it's cheap enough. rental
companies were buying them at 50% off list. and selling them at 30% -
40% off list. and they'd had their guts flogged out in between. great
deal for the rental companies. which is why they bought them.

 

It's not that simple!
The big 2.5 also need to build the designs we want. They don't!

 

The components they buy are from the same parts companies. Magna is one
of the larger parts companies. Magna is Canadian, but produces parts
around the world. American parts company Delphi (ex of GM) gets most of
their parts outside the USA.
My '95 Chrysler had an original ignition switch used by at least 3
companies, based on the 3 parts numbers on it. One non Chrysler # was
that of a popular German car company.
Most make or buy parts made in Mexico. My '80 Chrysler had Mexican
wheels. My '01 Sebring had a blower resistor made in Mexico and I
believe it's 2.7L engine is from Mexico.
Lastly some Japanese companies also manufacture in Mexico.

It's all about manufacturing the vehicles people want.
Major manufacturer quality and prices, regardless of their stripe, is
now very similar.

 

Nope!
Toyota, GM, Honda, Ford, Chrysler,,,...........,,,, Daimler.

 

It's a bottom end car, hardly comparable to anything built in NAFTA.
For example GM gets it's bottom end cars from Korea.

 

I still have my '95 Chrysler LH, which is my only car.
Runs and looks like new.

 

The rental companies still need cars, every 20K or less.
I hear they aren't getting the purchase deals they used to.

 

My friend bought a '96 Taurus SW used rental, which he just traded after
105k low cost miles.

 

I would submit that explanation is not simple but rather simplistic. Far too
simplistic. There are many, many factors involved in this situation that
have nothing to do with quality of product.

DaveD

 

Actually its about manufacturing vehicles with all the bells and whistles
that people don't need, to force higher prices and margins. I challange you
to go to any new car lot and try to find a *BASIC* transportation car, or
truck or van. You won't find one, they are not being made or kept on the
lot. Why should they when the models that have the "luxury" packages on them
command a much higher prices and profits. When I bought my Tundra, it was
the only truck that had the cloth seats I needed without having to spend an
extra $10,000 for a luxury package*JUST* for the cloth seats, and also lose
the engine/transmission that I needed.

Maybe for the "big 3"