Brake Caliper Rebuild Questions

My 91 Civic LX's front brake calipers are the originals, with 153k miles on
them. Most of those miles were in northern U.S., snowy climates. Everything's
working fine, but given the age of the car, I am being pre-emptive. Right now I
want to rebuild the front brake calipers. I have replaced the front brake pads
twice now without difficulty.

My Chilton's manual and the Autozone site have the procedure for "Brake Caliper
Overhaul." The procedure says to replace the following (see drawing
http://tinyurl.com/3hy6k for item numbers):

item 3 = piston boot
item 6 = piston seal
item 7 = boot clip or "boot ring"
item 15 = sleeve boot

For my car, Autozone sells

1. a "brake caliper kit" for $2.99 (contains 3, 6, and 7 above?)
2. a "caliper bushing/pin kit" for $12.99 (contains 15 and more above?)

The Autozone site doesn't say what these kits include. I will be calling them to
try to get this information, but for now--

Has anyone rebuilt their front brake calipers using a kit from Autozone? If so,
what did the kit contain?

Also, who else might sell a caliper rebuild kit?

Lastly, what are criteria to use to decide whether to skip the re-build and
instead buy remanufactured calipers?

 

||My 91 Civic LX's front brake calipers are the originals, with 153k miles on
||them. Most of those miles were in northern U.S., snowy climates. Everything's
||working fine, but given the age of the car, I am being pre-emptive. Right now
I
||want to rebuild the front brake calipers. I have replaced the front brake pads
||twice now without difficulty.
||
||My Chilton's manual and the Autozone site have the procedure for "Brake
Caliper
||Overhaul." The procedure says to replace the following (see drawing
||http://tinyurl.com/3hy6k for item numbers):
||
||item 3 = piston boot
||item 6 = piston seal
||item 7 = boot clip or "boot ring"
||item 15 = sleeve boot
||
||For my car, Autozone sells
||
||1. a "brake caliper kit" for $2.99 (contains 3, 6, and 7 above?)

That's a seal kit - O-ring that seals the piston, boot that protects the sealing
area, and a spring ring to keep the boot in place.

||2. a "caliper bushing/pin kit" for $12.99 (contains 15 and more above?)

that should be a "hardware kit"

I'd check on getting a reman caliper. Those things are surpisingly cheap, and
you won't have to worry about rust pitting. You may have to buy the hardware
kit separately, but some brands include hardware.


Texas Parts Guy

 

||My 91 Civic LX's front brake calipers are the originals, with 153k miles on
||them. Most of those miles were in northern U.S., snowy climates. Everything's
||working fine, but given the age of the car, I am being pre-emptive. Right now
I
||want to rebuild the front brake calipers. I have replaced the front brake pads
||twice now without difficulty.
||
||My Chilton's manual and the Autozone site have the procedure for "Brake
Caliper
||Overhaul." The procedure says to replace the following (see drawing
||http://tinyurl.com/3hy6k for item numbers):
||
||item 3 = piston boot
||item 6 = piston seal
||item 7 = boot clip or "boot ring"
||item 15 = sleeve boot
||
||For my car, Autozone sells
||
||1. a "brake caliper kit" for $2.99 (contains 3, 6, and 7 above?)

That's a seal kit - O-ring that seals the piston, boot that protects the sealing
area, and a spring ring to keep the boot in place.

||2. a "caliper bushing/pin kit" for $12.99 (contains 15 and more above?)

that should be a "hardware kit"

I'd check on getting a reman caliper. Those things are surpisingly cheap, and
you won't have to worry about rust pitting. You may have to buy the hardware
kit separately, but some brands include hardware.


Texas Parts Guy

 

While that may sound like a good idea, if everything is indeed working fine
then I would recommend that you leave them alone.

If you do proceed with this, then I would recommend using only Honda OEM
parts. In my experience, aftermarket parts (piston seals, piston dust
boots, and slider boots) are made from a lower quality rubber than Honda's
parts. They will not last nearly as long. The piston dust boots and slider
boots crack which exposes critical parts to corrosion.

Check the function of your calipers fist before deciding to do any work.
Use a large pair of channel lock pliers to gently squeeze the piston into
the caliper for just a second or two. After releasing the pliers, you
should see the piston may back out. This is due to the function of the
piston seal pulling the piston in the opposite direction it had originally
moved. This motion is the primary force responsible for releasing your
brakes after they've been applied. If there's a problem with the piston,
e.g., corrosion, then the piston will not move back out after you've
squeezed it in with the pliers. Note that the amount of motion supplied by
the piston seal is not great, perhaps within 1-2 mm, however it's enough to
prevent the brakes from dragging.

The other function that's critical to prevent dragging brakes is to make
sure that the caliper body moves freely on the jail's sliders (the caliper
body contains the piston while the jails are the brackets bolted to the
steering knuckle). The sliders use a special lubricant to help ensure free
movement of the caliper body as the brakes wear down. If the sliders are
stiff, then it's fairly straight forward to clean them up and relube them.
Though you should check to make sure that they move freely before doing any
work on them.

As alluded to above, you should inspect the boots on the piston and sliders
to make sure that they aren't torn, cracked, etc.

By the way, in my opinion, the other poster's suggestion to go with
remanufactured calipers is an excellent one.

Lastly, one of the best things you can do to prevent brake problems is to
have the brake fluid flushed on a regular basis. The recommended interval
is every 30K miles or two years.

Eric

 

While that may sound like a good idea, if everything is indeed working fine
then I would recommend that you leave them alone.

If you do proceed with this, then I would recommend using only Honda OEM
parts. In my experience, aftermarket parts (piston seals, piston dust
boots, and slider boots) are made from a lower quality rubber than Honda's
parts. They will not last nearly as long. The piston dust boots and slider
boots crack which exposes critical parts to corrosion.

Check the function of your calipers fist before deciding to do any work.
Use a large pair of channel lock pliers to gently squeeze the piston into
the caliper for just a second or two. After releasing the pliers, you
should see the piston may back out. This is due to the function of the
piston seal pulling the piston in the opposite direction it had originally
moved. This motion is the primary force responsible for releasing your
brakes after they've been applied. If there's a problem with the piston,
e.g., corrosion, then the piston will not move back out after you've
squeezed it in with the pliers. Note that the amount of motion supplied by
the piston seal is not great, perhaps within 1-2 mm, however it's enough to
prevent the brakes from dragging.

The other function that's critical to prevent dragging brakes is to make
sure that the caliper body moves freely on the jail's sliders (the caliper
body contains the piston while the jails are the brackets bolted to the
steering knuckle). The sliders use a special lubricant to help ensure free
movement of the caliper body as the brakes wear down. If the sliders are
stiff, then it's fairly straight forward to clean them up and relube them.
Though you should check to make sure that they move freely before doing any
work on them.

As alluded to above, you should inspect the boots on the piston and sliders
to make sure that they aren't torn, cracked, etc.

By the way, in my opinion, the other poster's suggestion to go with
remanufactured calipers is an excellent one.

Lastly, one of the best things you can do to prevent brake problems is to
have the brake fluid flushed on a regular basis. The recommended interval
is every 30K miles or two years.

Eric

 

personally, id wait until they are actually sticking or leaking, then id
go with remanufactured. if youre flushing your brake fluid and replacing
every 3 yrs/36k miles, they might last the life of the car.

 

personally, id wait until they are actually sticking or leaking, then id
go with remanufactured. if youre flushing your brake fluid and replacing
every 3 yrs/36k miles, they might last the life of the car.

 

contrary to most people that value the convenience of remanufactured
calipers, i would only consider them if your originals are too badly
corroded to be reused. i hardly ever buy remanufactured calipers
myself. they often use inferior components and/or use harsh cleaning
chemicals that can leave parts very close to out of spec. i'd rather
buy new instead.

regarding rebuild kits, stick with oem - unquestionably much better
quality far in excess of the price differential. order online from
hondaautomotiveparts.com

rebuilding is easy for someone mechanically inclined. if the piston is
at all stiff on the way out, lift the caliper free of the disk & have an
assistant pump it out with brake fluid pressure. once the piston is
free, use a hose clamp like this:
http://www.etoolcart.com/browseproducts/Brake-Hose-Clamp-HCP750.HTML
to prevent excess fluid loss and air locks in the main system.

there's also a silicone grease that is very helpful in ensuring the
sliding parts remain lubed after reassembly:
http://www.permatex.com/auto/autouc.asp?automotive=yes&f_call=get_item&item_no=20355
silicone is /the/ lube for use with the natural rubber seals in this
situation.

i think rebuilding is good preemptive practice on a car this vintage and
environment. i did the same on the '89 civic i bought earlier this
year. before, the brakes were "ok". after, they were magnificent!
it's definitely worth it - if you've owned the car a long time, the
degradation is so gradual, you don't notice it until you do the refurb.

lastly, if you're doing the front, do the rears too. for rears, you may
want to consider replacement rather than refurb because the cylinders
are fairly cheap alloy and suffer mechanical wear.

 

contrary to most people that value the convenience of remanufactured
calipers, i would only consider them if your originals are too badly
corroded to be reused. i hardly ever buy remanufactured calipers
myself. they often use inferior components and/or use harsh cleaning
chemicals that can leave parts very close to out of spec. i'd rather
buy new instead.

regarding rebuild kits, stick with oem - unquestionably much better
quality far in excess of the price differential. order online from
hondaautomotiveparts.com

rebuilding is easy for someone mechanically inclined. if the piston is
at all stiff on the way out, lift the caliper free of the disk & have an
assistant pump it out with brake fluid pressure. once the piston is
free, use a hose clamp like this:
http://www.etoolcart.com/browseproducts/Brake-Hose-Clamp-HCP750.HTML
to prevent excess fluid loss and air locks in the main system.

there's also a silicone grease that is very helpful in ensuring the
sliding parts remain lubed after reassembly:
http://www.permatex.com/auto/autouc.asp?automotive=yes&f_call=get_item&item_no=20355
silicone is /the/ lube for use with the natural rubber seals in this
situation.

i think rebuilding is good preemptive practice on a car this vintage and
environment. i did the same on the '89 civic i bought earlier this
year. before, the brakes were "ok". after, they were magnificent!
it's definitely worth it - if you've owned the car a long time, the
degradation is so gradual, you don't notice it until you do the refurb.

lastly, if you're doing the front, do the rears too. for rears, you may
want to consider replacement rather than refurb because the cylinders
are fairly cheap alloy and suffer mechanical wear.

 

Forget rebuilding them. I did a rebuild several years back for my daughters
91 Accord. The piston seal is a RPITA to replace.

 

Forget rebuilding them. I did a rebuild several years back for my daughters
91 Accord. The piston seal is a RPITA to replace.

 

Thanks Rex, Eric, Mike, mrhct, and Jim.

Due to negligence, my 1991 Civic didn't have its first brake flush until 3
years, 60k miles into its life. After this I wasn't much better, abiding only by
the 30k mile requirement (again, due to negligence on my part). To date the car
has had only 4 brake flushes in its 13 year life. Its due for its next this
month (July, 2004).

I have never done my own brake flush. I have been studying up on it using
Autozone's repair guides, my Chilton's, and the UK (essentially helm) site. I am
now prepping for a one-person gravity bleed and flush. After a lot of reading, I
feel pretty good about doing it. (The car does not have anti-lock brakes.)

I'll test the piston per Eric's description. I am leaning towards a caliper
rebuild (instead of buying reman'd calipers), despite the possible headache of
replacing the piston seal (and/or boot ring, IIRC from other reports in the
group's archive). But I appreciate the warning...

I inspected the boots on one of the calipers, and they look "aged." If the
piston seems to respond fine with Eric's test, and since the brakes are working
fine, I wonder if I might just replace the pin boot, sleeve boot, and guide pin
boot (items 13, 14, and 15 at http://tinyurl.com/3hy6k ) and call it a day. I
realize that's only about half a rebuild but it looks pretty easy. I'm not up
on all the vocabulary you used, Eric (jails, steering knuckles), but I haven't
tried googling yet, either. Or if you or someone else wants to say what on the
drawing at the link above (or some other link) they are, I'd appreciate it.

I will go OEM.

I have done no work with drum brakes (which are on the rear of my car). I'm
leaving this for some other time.

Comments welcome as always.

 

Thanks Rex, Eric, Mike, mrhct, and Jim.

Due to negligence, my 1991 Civic didn't have its first brake flush until 3
years, 60k miles into its life. After this I wasn't much better, abiding only by
the 30k mile requirement (again, due to negligence on my part). To date the car
has had only 4 brake flushes in its 13 year life. Its due for its next this
month (July, 2004).

I have never done my own brake flush. I have been studying up on it using
Autozone's repair guides, my Chilton's, and the UK (essentially helm) site. I am
now prepping for a one-person gravity bleed and flush. After a lot of reading, I
feel pretty good about doing it. (The car does not have anti-lock brakes.)

I'll test the piston per Eric's description. I am leaning towards a caliper
rebuild (instead of buying reman'd calipers), despite the possible headache of
replacing the piston seal (and/or boot ring, IIRC from other reports in the
group's archive). But I appreciate the warning...

I inspected the boots on one of the calipers, and they look "aged." If the
piston seems to respond fine with Eric's test, and since the brakes are working
fine, I wonder if I might just replace the pin boot, sleeve boot, and guide pin
boot (items 13, 14, and 15 at http://tinyurl.com/3hy6k ) and call it a day. I
realize that's only about half a rebuild but it looks pretty easy. I'm not up
on all the vocabulary you used, Eric (jails, steering knuckles), but I haven't
tried googling yet, either. Or if you or someone else wants to say what on the
drawing at the link above (or some other link) they are, I'd appreciate it.

I will go OEM.

I have done no work with drum brakes (which are on the rear of my car). I'm
leaving this for some other time.

Comments welcome as always.

 

++++++++++++

Don't freak out! You've already had twice as many flushes as most Hondas
your age. Get a helper to push the pedal (but not to the floor). If you
have a good jack, tire iron, and helper, a bleed takes only about an
hour on your driveway.

Crack all lug nuts loose ahead of time. Start at front-left, then go
clockwise (if steering wheel is on left side

Use your park brake regularly to keep things in adjustment.(prevents
brakes feeling spongy)

'Curly'

 

++++++++++++

Don't freak out! You've already had twice as many flushes as most Hondas
your age. Get a helper to push the pedal (but not to the floor). If you
have a good jack, tire iron, and helper, a bleed takes only about an
hour on your driveway.

Crack all lug nuts loose ahead of time. Start at front-left, then go
clockwise (if steering wheel is on left side

Use your park brake regularly to keep things in adjustment.(prevents
brakes feeling spongy)

'Curly'

 

curly, where did you get this "parking brake keeps things in adjustment"
from?

i've seen that repeated a number of times on this group so i'm curious.
especially as it's the main service brake that actually does the
adjusting, not the parking brake. [take the rear drum off and have an
assistant GENTLY press the brake pedal if you want to see it work for
yourself - quite a cunning design].

 

curly, where did you get this "parking brake keeps things in adjustment"
from?

i've seen that repeated a number of times on this group so i'm curious.
especially as it's the main service brake that actually does the
adjusting, not the parking brake. [take the rear drum off and have an
assistant GENTLY press the brake pedal if you want to see it work for
yourself - quite a cunning design].

 

gravity works great for fluid refresh if you don't have airlocks, but
it's unreliable in a rebuild like this. borrow a neighbor kid for a few
minutes and have them pump the pedal for you. just make sure they
understand how important it is that they don't let their foot /off/ the
pedal until you say! suckback is bad news.

that bit's easy - small electrical screwdriver has that thing out in no
time. the fiddliest item in the whole job is fitting the new boot, and
even that's not too bad if you think about it before you start working.

if you need to, you can replace the rear cylinders without removing the
shoe assembly.

if you want to tackle the rear shoes, that's not such a big deal.
despite the fact that it's often sworn at as being difficult to
reassemble, i promise, it can be done without brute force, skinned
knuckles and special tools. simply attach the brake cable, screw the
adjuster bar all the way back in, fit the main tension spring, and you
can then "puzzle" that essembly back into position in one piece. then
you can fit the lower spring by hand and puzzle that into position also.
i watched my dad mess about with all kinds of problems on these
things for years - always a dreadful business. then saw it done by an
an old pro - he had the whole thing back in, fully assembled inside 2
minutes. no tools. it was great! it's all technique & confidence.

 

gravity works great for fluid refresh if you don't have airlocks, but
it's unreliable in a rebuild like this. borrow a neighbor kid for a few
minutes and have them pump the pedal for you. just make sure they
understand how important it is that they don't let their foot /off/ the
pedal until you say! suckback is bad news.

that bit's easy - small electrical screwdriver has that thing out in no
time. the fiddliest item in the whole job is fitting the new boot, and
even that's not too bad if you think about it before you start working.

if you need to, you can replace the rear cylinders without removing the
shoe assembly.

if you want to tackle the rear shoes, that's not such a big deal.
despite the fact that it's often sworn at as being difficult to
reassemble, i promise, it can be done without brute force, skinned
knuckles and special tools. simply attach the brake cable, screw the
adjuster bar all the way back in, fit the main tension spring, and you
can then "puzzle" that essembly back into position in one piece. then
you can fit the lower spring by hand and puzzle that into position also.
i watched my dad mess about with all kinds of problems on these
things for years - always a dreadful business. then saw it done by an
an old pro - he had the whole thing back in, fully assembled inside 2
minutes. no tools. it was great! it's all technique & confidence.

 

||Caroline wrote:
||> Thanks Rex, Eric, Mike, mrhct, and Jim.
||>
||> Due to negligence, my 1991 Civic didn't have its first brake flush until 3
||> years, 60k miles into its life. After this I wasn't much better, abiding
only by
||> the 30k mile requirement (again, due to negligence on my part). To date the
car
||> has had only 4 brake flushes in its 13 year life. Its due for its next this
||> month (July, 2004).
||>
||> I have never done my own brake flush. I have been studying up on it using
||> Autozone's repair guides, my Chilton's, and the UK (essentially helm) site.
I am
||> now prepping for a one-person gravity bleed and flush.
||
||gravity works great for fluid refresh if you don't have airlocks, but
||it's unreliable in a rebuild like this. borrow a neighbor kid for a few
||minutes and have them pump the pedal for you. just make sure they
||understand how important it is that they don't let their foot /off/ the
||pedal until you say! suckback is bad news.

Put a wooden block under the pedal

||> replacing the piston seal
||
||that bit's easy - small electrical screwdriver has that thing out in no
||time. the fiddliest item in the whole job is fitting the new boot, and
||even that's not too bad if you think about it before you start working.

I agree, you can do it.

||
||if you need to, you can replace the rear cylinders without removing the
||shoe assembly.
||
||if you want to tackle the rear shoes, that's not such a big deal.
||despite the fact that it's often sworn at as being difficult to
||reassemble, i promise, it can be done without brute force, skinned
||knuckles and special tools. simply attach the brake cable, screw the
||adjuster bar all the way back in, fit the main tension spring, and you
||can then "puzzle" that essembly back into position in one piece. then
||you can fit the lower spring by hand and puzzle that into position also.

The key to working on rear drums is to remove both drums, hose them off to get
rid of the dust, then work on one side at a time. That way you can look at the
other side if you get confused.

Texas Parts Guy