Brand reliability--Perception vs reality

http://consumerist.com/5127337/the-10-most-reliable-car-brands-vs-your-pr
econceived-notions


Brand Perception ‹ Top 10

1. Toyota
2. Honda
3. Ford
4. Cadillac
5. Mercedes-Benz
6. GMC
7. Lexus
8. BMW
9. Chevrolet
10. Volvo



Brand Reliability ‹ Top 10

1. Scion
2. Acura
3. Honda
4. Toyota
5. Lexus
6. Infinity
7. Subaru
8. Hyundai
9. Mitsubishi
10. Kia



yeah. That's right. The numbers show the reality.

 

infinity but no nissan?

 

Nissan is still plagued by the Mississippi built Pathfinders &
Armadas. They bring down the whole name.

 

At least among it 320,000 subscribers most of whom are reported to be import
buyers, not the average of the 16,000,000 buyers that bought NEW cars in
each of the past five years.

I wonder what the results would be if CR sampled the extra one to three
million buyers annually, that had GM being that far ahead of any other
manufactures in sales annually?

 

Whoah!!.... wait a sec...

Ford is perceived as reliable??

 

Aren't you familiar with statistical sampling theory?

 

But...but...a Scion is a Camry with a coupe body and Celica suspension and
brakes...

 

Depends what Scion. Some are Yaris/Echo-based.

Still, it's passing strange that Scion is several points above Toyota's
other two brands when they all share the exact same parts. Sort of makes
one question the quality of the surveys' methods, no?

 

To quote, "There are three kinds of lies. Lies; Damn Lies and Statistics."
Mark Twain....He was right on once more....

DaveD

 

On the surface, yes, but consider the case of two cars with the "exact
same parts" under the skin, one marketed to people that drive like
maniacs and the other marketed to people that drive like Grandma. In
such a case, a difference in reliability wouldn't be surprising.

 

They are basing the "real" numbers on the bogus Consumer Reports
survey. A non-random, non-scientific, beauty poll of CR readers who
feel like responding. The results are interesting, but not
statistically significant.

Ed

 

Ergo, the fact that Buick keep coming in tops in the JD Power and
similar ratings.

When you drive the car 6000 miles in 7 years, what do you expect?

 

I am not an expert, but I don't think you should consider a self
selected subgroup of a self selected group to be a valid sample
(people who choose to subscribe to CR who choose to respond to the CR
survey).

Ed

 

Why would a Toyota owner ever question CR opinions?

Ed

 

That's exactly my point.

The survey results are not as valid as people think they are because the
survey makers have not controlled for owner behavior.

In other words, the survey reflects the owner as well as the car, which is
useless to me unless I'm buying a used car.

Consumer Reports reliability surveys have the same problem.

 

Sorry, I failed to realize this *IS* CR's own survey.

 

LOL!

Ain't that the truth! Need to show it to my 90 year old mom who still
drives a Buick, maybe 5 miles a week. Incredible gas mileage, according to
her.

B~

 

I take CR and JDPowers with a grain of salt and usually 10 grains of asprin.
JDPower's Initial Quality survey means very little. Most cars can be made
to look good on the showroom floor. What's the car look like and act like
at 5 years or 10? Is it still responding well in traffic? How's the body
holding up after a few Chicago winters with all the metal-eating salt?
What's the engine look like after sloging through some traffic jams with the
AC on in some of our 95-degree summers? How's it doing for repairs? Mostly
scheduled maintenance, or a shop queen? Any handling quirks?

When I buy a car, I expect about 5 years out of it before I have to start
thinking about replacing it. It's not like a computer. I just need to get
from A to B, reliably.

Sir Charles the Curmudgeon

 

ONLY 5 years????

I trade cars often, but not because they have problems. I just like
new cars or the type of car I want changes (I like convertibles, but
usually after three years of owning one, I decide to go back to a
sedan). However, at times I have had to hang on a car for a long time.
I won't even consider buying a car that I don't think will last 12 to
15 years and 200k miles. I have only kept four vehicles anywhere near
that long, and they were all Fords (all relatively problem free), but
I don't intend to start out buying a car with the idea it is going to
be reliable for only 5 years. I've never sold a car of my own that
wasn't in good condition at the time of the sale (but I have traded-in
a few that were horrid). For instance, when I sold my 1997 Expedition
with 150k miles, I was sure it was capable of doing another 50k miles
with no significant problems. Or when I sold by 1986 Sable to a
co-worker, I had no doubt he could drive it to at least 200k miles (he
actually exceeded that before totaling it in an accident). I have
purchased cars that after I bought them I decided were not going to be
reliable (notably a Toyota Cressida, Plymouth Reliant, Audi Coupe,
Saturn Vue, and multiple British Sports Cars) and I usually got rid of
them as soon as practical (well except for the British Sports Cars -
they were like a drug to me).

Ed

 

I was referring to my tC...

One thing I was thinking about after reading this post last night: Scions
aren't pumped out in the same mass quantities as the Camry or other Toyota
units, and there might be a little more attention to detail when the cars
are rolling down the line. The one disturbing thing is that a *LOT* of tC
owners complain about rattles and squeaks, especially from the hatch.
Luckily, this is something mine does not suffer from, although there is a
nasty squeak from behind the dash when the temperature gets below 40
degrees F.

Interesting that Scion has shuch high numbers, but the Celica which was
made in limited quantities from 1999-2006 had a LOT of complaints...