Burning Oil

that tests compression rings, not oil control rings.

 

stay away from that stuff. it cokes up engines something chronic. it's
just a short term fix designed to shift junk off a sellers driveway.

 

stay away from that stuff. it cokes up engines something chronic. it's
just a short term fix designed to shift junk off a sellers driveway.

 

or it's the only one working right!

 

or it's the only one working right!

 

IMO, it's also possible that the rings are merely gunked up with carbon
deposits. (Barring abuse, a 200K Civic should be far from worn out,
right folks?) If so, it might be possible to clean the gunk and free
the stuck rings, allowing them to resume normal service.

Does the engine have any sludge, or other signs of over-stressed oil?

I'm not a big fan of oil additives, but AutoRx seems to be a legitimate
product that actually works. It's a mix of esters that are quite
effective in cleaning up sludge and carbonized oil from your engine.

Or you might try running a good synthetic for a few changes. Pick one
with a close spread of viscosities, ie. 10w-30. Such an oil should have
fewer volatile viscosity index modifiers; these VII additives are
supposedly one of the main sources of engine deposits. Over on BITOG,
M1 10W-30 high mileage mix has a good reputation for cleaning, but any
good 10w-30 Syn should help. If you really want to clean the car, run
Redline. It's ester based, VII free, and cleans like mad.

One of these options may well help, and will be vastly less expensive
and troublesome than disassembling the engine.

0.02c

 

IMO, it's also possible that the rings are merely gunked up with carbon
deposits. (Barring abuse, a 200K Civic should be far from worn out,
right folks?) If so, it might be possible to clean the gunk and free
the stuck rings, allowing them to resume normal service.

Does the engine have any sludge, or other signs of over-stressed oil?

I'm not a big fan of oil additives, but AutoRx seems to be a legitimate
product that actually works. It's a mix of esters that are quite
effective in cleaning up sludge and carbonized oil from your engine.

Or you might try running a good synthetic for a few changes. Pick one
with a close spread of viscosities, ie. 10w-30. Such an oil should have
fewer volatile viscosity index modifiers; these VII additives are
supposedly one of the main sources of engine deposits. Over on BITOG,
M1 10W-30 high mileage mix has a good reputation for cleaning, but any
good 10w-30 Syn should help. If you really want to clean the car, run
Redline. It's ester based, VII free, and cleans like mad.

One of these options may well help, and will be vastly less expensive
and troublesome than disassembling the engine.

0.02c

 

ps.

Here's a pretty good BITOG thread discussing coked-up rings.
http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1460891

 

ps.

Here's a pretty good BITOG thread discussing coked-up rings.
http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1460891

 

I have not taken off the oil pan, but during the three oil changes
since March, I did not notice sludge when transferring oil to an old
milk jug for recycling. I was under the valve cover doing the valve
stem seal replacement and of course mopped up a lot of oil in the
process. It did not seem sludg-y or particularly dirty.

I read the Bob-is-the-oil-guy thread and am researching the AutoRX
further, for one, now.

Thanks for the input.

 

I have not taken off the oil pan, but during the three oil changes
since March, I did not notice sludge when transferring oil to an old
milk jug for recycling. I was under the valve cover doing the valve
stem seal replacement and of course mopped up a lot of oil in the
process. It did not seem sludg-y or particularly dirty.

I read the Bob-is-the-oil-guy thread and am researching the AutoRX
further, for one, now.

Thanks for the input.

 

A lot of auto maintenance sites (not just random people posting) state
that either the valve stem seals or the valve guides may be failing. I
understand what you're saying but it is hard for me to say from the
Civic shop manual drawing whether a new, properly installed valve stem
seal alone will ensure no leakage in this area.

Regardless, for now I am going the route of trying to clean things up
with continued use of Mobil 1 and/or maybe Auto-RX.

 

A lot of auto maintenance sites (not just random people posting) state
that either the valve stem seals or the valve guides may be failing. I
understand what you're saying but it is hard for me to say from the
Civic shop manual drawing whether a new, properly installed valve stem
seal alone will ensure no leakage in this area.

Regardless, for now I am going the route of trying to clean things up
with continued use of Mobil 1 and/or maybe Auto-RX.

 

1. your honda valve guides are not submerged.
2. it's been known for internet "experts" to be full of it.
3. i've experimented with /no/ seals - you lose a little, but it's not a
massive source of loss.

unless it's lost flexibility, is worn or cracked, it will.

 

1. your honda valve guides are not submerged.
2. it's been known for internet "experts" to be full of it.
3. i've experimented with /no/ seals - you lose a little, but it's not a
massive source of loss.

unless it's lost flexibility, is worn or cracked, it will.

 

It doesn't matter. Oil is being flung all over the inside of the valve
cover. If your guides are worn and your seals are worn, oil will be
sucked in through the intake guides.

True as well. I've had engines that did not even use valve stem seals
(Jensen-Healey 2.0L Lotus 4 cylinder) and others that only used them
on the intake valves. However, when you say "you use a little," that
might add up to a lot in the eyes of some people. For a new engine
with minimal valve stem to valve guide clearance, the loss will be
small. However, for an older engine with worn stems and guides, the
loss can be significant. In the old days this was still trivial in
many cases. However, with modern engines, severely worn guides can
casue several problems - excessive air leakage will screw up the PCM's
calculation for fuel delivery and excessive oil consumption can damage
a catalytic converter.

New seals will help, but becasue of the excessive play, they won't
last as long, and they will still let more oil past than seals on
unworn guides and stems. Seals have to allow some oil past to keep the
valve stems and guides lubricated, so they aren't perfect seals by
design.

If the engine is only using a half a quart per 600 miles, I'd just
drive it. With 197,000 miles on the engine, it is not just the valve
train that is worn.

Ed

 

It doesn't matter. Oil is being flung all over the inside of the valve
cover. If your guides are worn and your seals are worn, oil will be
sucked in through the intake guides.

True as well. I've had engines that did not even use valve stem seals
(Jensen-Healey 2.0L Lotus 4 cylinder) and others that only used them
on the intake valves. However, when you say "you use a little," that
might add up to a lot in the eyes of some people. For a new engine
with minimal valve stem to valve guide clearance, the loss will be
small. However, for an older engine with worn stems and guides, the
loss can be significant. In the old days this was still trivial in
many cases. However, with modern engines, severely worn guides can
casue several problems - excessive air leakage will screw up the PCM's
calculation for fuel delivery and excessive oil consumption can damage
a catalytic converter.

New seals will help, but becasue of the excessive play, they won't
last as long, and they will still let more oil past than seals on
unworn guides and stems. Seals have to allow some oil past to keep the
valve stems and guides lubricated, so they aren't perfect seals by
design.

If the engine is only using a half a quart per 600 miles, I'd just
drive it. With 197,000 miles on the engine, it is not just the valve
train that is worn.

Ed

 

Thanks for the further input, Jim and Ed. I will try to get a better
look at the valve guides on the next trip to the junkyard, for
continued education on this point.

 

Thanks for the further input, Jim and Ed. I will try to get a better
look at the valve guides on the next trip to the junkyard, for
continued education on this point.

 

I agree. Just use the highest viscosity the manual recommends for
your temp range and keep a few bottles in the trunk. Just keep
checking it once a week and add as needed. I actually think 1200 miles
per qt is fine for a car with 190,000 miles. If it doesn't make it to
a quarter million, it won't be because of this oil burning problem
(unless you run it dry).