Buying a replacement engine

Discussion in 'General Motoring' started by larson.joshua, Dec 31, 2006.

  1. i'm considering replacing the engine in my 1991 civic DX - i think it
    is a D15B2.

    i think i want just a straight replacement. i'm more interested in
    fuel economy than performance.

    does anyone have any experience or advice regarding purchasing engines?
    i need practical information regarding JDM engines, buying online and
    warranties.

    thanks!
     
    larson.joshua, Dec 31, 2006
    #1
  2. larson.joshua

    Elle Guest

    Hi Josh, I am a 91 Civic LX owner. Mine's a D15B2 engine. I
    was curious on behalf of a friend and went looking for an
    engine online a few months ago. Seems like one with less
    than 75k miles on it for our Civics may be had for under
    $800. Shipping runs a measly $100. Warranties seem to run 3
    months to a year. You can google using words like {swap
    engine honda civic} and start studying the results for some
    more ideas.
     
    Elle, Dec 31, 2006
    #2
  3. larson.joshua

    jim beam Guest

    what's wrong with yours and why do you want to replace it? how many
    miles? i ask because if you think it's not performing right, there are
    a number of possible causes, all of which are cheaper and less
    troublesome than replacing the whole unit.
     
    jim beam, Dec 31, 2006
    #3
  4. i've done some looking online and it's difficult to discern what's what
    and if a given website is legitimate. that's the biggest difficulty.

    jim - you've helped me in the past and i appreciate that. here's the
    long story short: bought the car from a friend. when i bought it, it
    probably had a blown head gasket. after a while, the engine blew,
    overheated severely and i had head reworked. i did the work and
    installed new timing belt, new water pump, and of course new head
    gasket.

    the engine seemed to run just okay. it felt tired. then the temp
    started fluctuating. replaced thermostat a few times, rad cap a few
    times... was losing coolant. figured i messed up first gasket job.
    started #2. replaced timing belt, head gasket had head reworked.
    replaced distributor after the last one had bad crank sensor (caught
    warranty by a week!).

    car runs okay, but here's the thing it did after 1st and 2nd head
    gasket job: after i drive for a while, some kind of gas gets into the
    cooling system. it bubbles, not boils, pretty vigorously after i come
    home (up a mountainside). i could live with this, but i have to check
    the fluid levels every couple days now. the gas pushes coolant out,
    overflows the resevoir, makes a mess and then i have to fill it back
    up.

    i am now feeling like the block is cracked or something else is majorly
    messed up. plus, i'm a little sick of working on this engine...
     
    larson.joshua, Dec 31, 2006
    #4
  5. larson.joshua

    jim beam Guest

    the biggest thing is to buy with a credit card [not debit card]. that
    way, ultimately, if there's a problem, the vendor has to work with you
    and the credit card company to resolve any problems. i'd just go for
    one of the direct jdm importers with as low a mileage as possible. you
    don't need much of a warranty - say a month. if it works, has no head
    problems and doesn't burn oil, you're set - all those will be detectable
    in the first week or so.
    something's cracked.
    replacement is 100% the way to go - not worth wasting another single
    moment on that motor. onwards!
     
    jim beam, Dec 31, 2006
    #5
  6. thanks jim,

    i appreciate your help! do you know of any reputable vendors of these
    jdm motors? you mentioned "one of the direct jdm importers."

    also, is this industry legit? as in, are the mileages they quote for
    real or is it just B.S.? would i be better off going to the junk yard?

    thanks again (exciting saturday, right?).

     
    larson.joshua, Dec 31, 2006
    #6
  7. larson.joshua

    jim beam Guest

    no, it's legit. mileages should be about right - other markets,
    particularly japan, do much lower mileage than us. that's why i'd only
    buy a domestic motor in emergency - /much/ higher mileage. but that
    said, there's no reason a d15 can't do 300k miles if it's not been
    cracked and has had the oil changed regularly.

    i'm not endorsing any of the following:
    http://www.sunrisejdmmotors.com/
    http://www.nippon-motors.com/honda.htm
    http://www.naganojapanese.com/

    there are a bunch of others if you google.

    good luck!
    you're not going anywhere with that motor!
     
    jim beam, Dec 31, 2006
    #7
  8. larson.joshua

    John Horner Guest

    Ah, but how is one to know if the stated mileage is accurate? And what
    do you know about how the engine was maintained ... nothing.

    Sounds like a crap shoot to me.
     
    John Horner, Dec 31, 2006
    #8
  9. larson.joshua

    jim beam Guest

    you have no way of ensuring mileage accuracy with a domestic junk yard
    either. well, you kind of do - you're guaranteed that it's done a /lot/
    more miles than a japanese motor.

    one more thing worth consideration. in the hondas i've had, the
    japanese made motors seem to be better balanced than the ones made here.
    there's no real reason why this should be, but that's been my experience.
     
    jim beam, Dec 31, 2006
    #9
  10. There's something about a car that isn't?

    The odds should be good, though. As I understand it Japanese emission
    standards are so tight that engines are replaced because of normal wear long
    before they would be considered unserviceable here.

    I would put a new timing belt and water pump on before putting the engine in
    a car, though. It's got to be easier to do on a stand, and then the new
    owner knows when it is due again.

    Mike
     
    Michael Pardee, Dec 31, 2006
    #10
  11. larson.joshua

    Elle Guest

    I just looked over the threads of this saga the OP began
    earlier this year. Yikes. With all the other reports of head
    gasket (or block or head etc.) failures, especially those
    reported in summer time, I wonder if the newsgroup will
    continue to see repeat failures resulting in the need for a
    replacement engine.

    Granted this is happening overwhelmingly in older Hondas, c.
    1988-1993, so it's hard to say if it's due to an imperfect
    repair job; extraordinary summer heat; or simply the age of
    these older Hondas.
     
    Elle, Dec 31, 2006
    #11
  12. larson.joshua

    Eric Guest

    A new thermostat would also be a great idea.

    Eric
     
    Eric, Jan 1, 2007
    #12
  13. Oh, yeah... an OEM thermostat!
     
    Michael Pardee, Jan 1, 2007
    #13
  14. Jim,

    Not trying to jack this thread. But I have a question.

    Why does automotive engine usage get measured in miles/kms and any other
    heavy duty application get measured in hours?

    Wouldn't these engines from Japan have crazy high hours?

    I was speaking with a farmer the other day, and he shed some good light on
    the whole oil change thing.... He said John Deere recommends an oil change
    every 300-400 hours.

    If I translate that length of time into KMs in my car, assuming my average
    speed is around 50km/h, (I do alot of highway miles) that would mean that 300
    hours is 15000kms? For the record, I change every 5000kms. But why the
    discrepancy?

    I buy heavy duty diesel engines for a living. I don't maintain them for a
    living though... otherwise I would know Cummins' intervals for oil changes.
    But I do happen to know on the design side that oil filtration is really no
    different on these heavy duty applications than on the average consumer
    vehicle.

    Comments?

    t

     
    loewent via CarKB.com, Jan 1, 2007
    #14
  15. larson.joshua

    jim beam Guest

    very good question! to skip forward a bit, there's quite a bit of
    movement in the industry towards pushing out oil change intervals.
    there's two main methods - one is using the ecu to log usage and
    electronically compare that with a table of oil conditions. the other is
    measuring dielectric constant and mapping that in much the same way.
    the expensive option is actual spark spectroscopy analysis like they use
    in f1, but i'm not aware of that being used in production vehicles.

    biggest reason for hour-based changes vs mileage is that with a lot of
    diesels, [generators, etc.] there /are/ no miles to log! farm gear
    doesn't cover a lot of mileage either.

    regarding discrepancy, big commercial diesels tend to have a much more
    regular life than the average passenger car. not only do diesels wear
    less on cold start [diesel wetting a cylinder wall is a lubricant, not a
    dilutant like gasoline], they tend to have a lot fewer cold starts too.
    a lot of trucks run for days on end, marine diesels for months on end.
    this means the oil has less crud in it from the cold start process
    which helps. then there's filtration. a lot of big diesels have two
    filters - one is full flow, the other is bypass. the bypass filter
    pulls out all the fine stuff the full flow filter doesn't, and this
    keeps the oil in pretty good shape. a lot of commercial fleets are also
    supported by oil analysis and usage logging. a vehicle used on a
    regular route can have its oil change strategy "tuned" very accurately.
    hardly any passenger cars do this, so manufacturers are really trying
    to cover hugely different usage patters with their recommended service
    intervals.

    but the bottom line on all this though is what the market supports.
    even my old 89 civic has a 7500 mile change interval. yet who here
    waits that long? the later civics have 10k as their interval - at
    30mph, that's 333 hours, not far off john deere's diesel spec. again,
    there's a lot of resistance among american consumers about extended
    change intervals with people routinely ignoring the onboard diagnostics
    and getting oil changed 2 or even 3 times before the oil service
    notification comes on. i don't see us embracing much beyond 10k unless
    there's a massive public education campaign, but that's against the
    interests of the oil industry, so that ain't going to happen! otoh, i
    hear that the europeans are very keen on long change intervals and for
    pushing it out as far as possible with up to 30k on some of the euro
    cars. of course, improved lubricants play a significant role in that too.
     
    jim beam, Jan 2, 2007
    #15
  16. My guess is that diesel engines need service more by hours of operation than
    gasoline engines do. Couple that with the sort of duty many of those engines
    get - miles traveled not being a good measure of usage and sometimes being
    used in stationary applications - and doing those by miles is pretty
    far-fetched. Airplanes powered by gasoline engines are the same way.
    Maintenance is done by the hour meter and probably still would even if there
    were an odometer to read.

    Disclaimer - I am not very familiar with diesels. I've been driving a Ford
    F350 diesel at work for about a year and have operated a diesel snow cat.
    Interestingly, although the snow cat has an odometer, its fuel consumption
    is estimated in terms of hours of operation rather than miles.

    Mike
     
    Michael Pardee, Jan 2, 2007
    #16
  17. larson.joshua

    Speedy Pete Guest

    Your description sounds like the head gasket is leaking again.

    DEspite your not wanting to work on this motor much more you can try to
    unscrew and re-torque each head bolt. Sometimes you can get them to seal
    again. Another thing is did you use any assembly lube on the head bolts
    so you can get an accurate torque AND something I do on every hole is to
    run a tap through it. Both of these steps will let you get a much more
    accurate toque and keep the gremlins away.


    -SP
     
    Speedy Pete, Jan 3, 2007
    #17
  18. larson.joshua

    jim beam Guest

    even if this weren't a waste of time on a motor with a cracked block,
    it's a waste of time on a car with a gasket that's leaked. leak once,
    leak always. /always/. no amount of re-torquing will cure it.
     
    jim beam, Jan 3, 2007
    #18
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