Can Anything Stop Toyota?

Discussion in 'General Motoring' started by elmo, Nov 11, 2003.

  1. elmo

    HarrierAWD Guest


    CR's auto eval process is very scientific and is done by automotive engineers,
    not by the editors. You are apparently un-educated and ignorant to understand
    their reviews.

    You value the backdoor favors at auto plants. I choose to trust CR's review
    and survey results. Also Car&Driver, Motortrend, etc.

    The point is that our auto makers need to wake up and compete by building
    better quality automobiles, not to be ignorant like you.
     
    HarrierAWD, Nov 14, 2003
  2. elmo

    HarrierAWD Guest


    CR's auto eval process is very scientific and is done by automotive engineers,
    not by the editors. You are apparently un-educated and ignorant to understand
    their reviews.

    You value the backdoor favors at auto plants. I choose to trust CR's review
    and survey results. Also Car&Driver, Motortrend, etc.

    The point is that our auto makers need to wake up and compete by building
    better quality automobiles, not to be ignorant like you.
     
    HarrierAWD, Nov 14, 2003
  3. elmo

    JB Guest


    Are we still talking about build quality *at all* here? :)
     
    JB, Nov 14, 2003
  4. elmo

    JB Guest


    Are we still talking about build quality *at all* here? :)
     
    JB, Nov 14, 2003
  5. You are an idiot. You have already demonstrated that you know nothing
    about statistics and the above statement proves it once again. 600K
    is a huge survey and the number of cars sold per year is irrelevant.

    Do us all a favor Kunt. Next time you get a blood test at the
    doctor's office, point out that he is only sampling a fraction of a
    percent of your blood. Insist that he take at least 4 pints to get a
    good sample.
     
    Gordon McGrew, Nov 15, 2003
  6. elmo

    Philip® Guest

    In
    CR's evaluation process has always been plagued by subjectivity. I'm
    the one writing the check at purchase time and I am the one who has
    to live with the purchase. That's why it's what -I- discover about
    the car that matters most. You can let other people do your thinking
    and test driving for you. Probably just as well. Car models live
    and die by the dictates of the market .... magazines notwithstanding.


    What new car have you purchased in the last couple of years?
     
    Philip®, Nov 15, 2003
  7. elmo

    Philip® Guest

    In
    CR's evaluation process has always been plagued by subjectivity. I'm
    the one writing the check at purchase time and I am the one who has
    to live with the purchase. That's why it's what -I- discover about
    the car that matters most. You can let other people do your thinking
    and test driving for you. Probably just as well. Car models live
    and die by the dictates of the market .... magazines notwithstanding.


    What new car have you purchased in the last couple of years?
     
    Philip®, Nov 15, 2003
  8. elmo

    Dave Kelsen Guest

    Philip, the subject of the discussion with respect to Consumer Reports
    was the reliability of vehicles reported by owners & drivers, hundreds
    of thousands of them. That's not subjective, unless you intend to claim
    that Consumer Reports makes up the survey results. If you do, by all
    means make the claim. Either way, your ignorance is appalling. Please
    shut the **** up.

    RFT!!!
    Dave Kelsen
     
    Dave Kelsen, Nov 15, 2003
  9. elmo

    Dave Kelsen Guest

    Philip, the subject of the discussion with respect to Consumer Reports
    was the reliability of vehicles reported by owners & drivers, hundreds
    of thousands of them. That's not subjective, unless you intend to claim
    that Consumer Reports makes up the survey results. If you do, by all
    means make the claim. Either way, your ignorance is appalling. Please
    shut the **** up.

    RFT!!!
    Dave Kelsen
     
    Dave Kelsen, Nov 15, 2003
  10. elmo

    noyap Guest

    Do us all a favor Kunt.

    Hey, easy pal! BTW, kunt is actually spelled '****'! <LOL>
     
    noyap, Nov 15, 2003
  11. elmo

    Philip® Guest

    In
    Dave, the difference of opinion is over C/R's automotive evaluations
    over the years and the weight that should be given to those reports
    vs. personal research. C/R is a non-profit organization which means
    they can be just as prejudiced and opinionated in one direction as a
    "for profit" magazine can be biased in favor of its advertisers in
    another direction. The size of CR's audience only reflects the
    diversity of product they test, name recognition, and their many
    years in business.

    I have worked in the auto repair business for many years and have
    visited several assembly plant(s) of the models up for consideration.
    To those who have not such a background, do the best you can by
    reading a VARIETY of publications ... not -just- C/R.
     
    Philip®, Nov 15, 2003
  12. elmo

    Philip® Guest

    In
    Dave, the difference of opinion is over C/R's automotive evaluations
    over the years and the weight that should be given to those reports
    vs. personal research. C/R is a non-profit organization which means
    they can be just as prejudiced and opinionated in one direction as a
    "for profit" magazine can be biased in favor of its advertisers in
    another direction. The size of CR's audience only reflects the
    diversity of product they test, name recognition, and their many
    years in business.

    I have worked in the auto repair business for many years and have
    visited several assembly plant(s) of the models up for consideration.
    To those who have not such a background, do the best you can by
    reading a VARIETY of publications ... not -just- C/R.
     
    Philip®, Nov 15, 2003
  13. elmo

    Frank Kemper Guest

    Well, at least in Germany working for a car manufacturer and working for
    the defense industry is no contradiction. The chassis of the Leopard 1
    tank was developed by Porsche. Mercedes developed the G-Model mainly for
    selling it to various armies as a multi purpose vehicle. The famous Fuchs
    six wheeled armoured vehicle (german soldiers have operated Fuchs ABC
    surveillance vehicles in Kuweit up to now) is powered by a Mercedes
    engine. VW made several off road vehicles mainly for military purpose (VW
    181, VW Iltis), and the Pershing middle range rockets of the USAF have
    been based on mobile launch stations made by MAN, a german truck
    manufacturer. Besides this Mercedes owner Daimler Chrysler also owns a
    part of EADS, the largest aerospace company of Europe, which builds the
    Airbus and the new Eurofighter. Daimler Chrysler also owned the military
    engine manufacturer MTU (they have sold the company just a few days ago).
    Most ships of the German Federal Navy are powered by MTU engines, so are
    most heavy tanks in the German Federal Armed Forces. 8 years ago I
    visited the german camera maker Rollei (now owned by Samsung). Back then
    Rollei made one of the first digital camera system suitable for
    professional use. It used a large scale CCD sensor provided by Rockwell
    industries. I heard complaints by Rollei reps, who said that they could
    not get as much CCD sensors as they needed, because the most important
    client was Martin Marietta, to fit them into the target finding device of
    their cruise missile. He found that not fair, because Rollei has
    developed the optical target finding system of the cruise missile:
    "guess, why cruise missles were able to commute through Baghdad like
    taxicabs".

    Frank
     
    Frank Kemper, Nov 15, 2003
  14. elmo

    Frank Kemper Guest

    Well, at least in Germany working for a car manufacturer and working for
    the defense industry is no contradiction. The chassis of the Leopard 1
    tank was developed by Porsche. Mercedes developed the G-Model mainly for
    selling it to various armies as a multi purpose vehicle. The famous Fuchs
    six wheeled armoured vehicle (german soldiers have operated Fuchs ABC
    surveillance vehicles in Kuweit up to now) is powered by a Mercedes
    engine. VW made several off road vehicles mainly for military purpose (VW
    181, VW Iltis), and the Pershing middle range rockets of the USAF have
    been based on mobile launch stations made by MAN, a german truck
    manufacturer. Besides this Mercedes owner Daimler Chrysler also owns a
    part of EADS, the largest aerospace company of Europe, which builds the
    Airbus and the new Eurofighter. Daimler Chrysler also owned the military
    engine manufacturer MTU (they have sold the company just a few days ago).
    Most ships of the German Federal Navy are powered by MTU engines, so are
    most heavy tanks in the German Federal Armed Forces. 8 years ago I
    visited the german camera maker Rollei (now owned by Samsung). Back then
    Rollei made one of the first digital camera system suitable for
    professional use. It used a large scale CCD sensor provided by Rockwell
    industries. I heard complaints by Rollei reps, who said that they could
    not get as much CCD sensors as they needed, because the most important
    client was Martin Marietta, to fit them into the target finding device of
    their cruise missile. He found that not fair, because Rollei has
    developed the optical target finding system of the cruise missile:
    "guess, why cruise missles were able to commute through Baghdad like
    taxicabs".

    Frank
     
    Frank Kemper, Nov 15, 2003
  15. elmo

    IleneDover Guest

    Are you one of the million? ;)


    mike hunt



     
    IleneDover, Nov 16, 2003
  16. elmo

    Dave Kelsen Guest

    Interesting opinion, and perhaps I overreacted. On the other hand,
    looking back in this thread, I quote the first reference to Consumer
    Reports:
    The reference here is clearly to the owner surveys, as *I* said, and
    *not* to CR's staff reviews, as you reference above. You clearly stated
    your opinion with respect to CR's staff reviews. You're deluded, but so
    are we all, about something; you're entitled. The point is, no one was
    arguing with you about it.

    For whatever *my* opinion is worth, I suggest to you the following: The
    size of CR's audience reflects the diversity of products they test, name
    recognition, and their many years in business.

    Further, I recommend that if you are unable to form an opinion uncolored
    by the pablum handed out by automobile manufacturers, I recommend that
    you do the best you can by reading a VARIETY of publications ...
    including C/R.

    RFT!!!
    Dave Kelsen
     
    Dave Kelsen, Nov 16, 2003
  17. elmo

    Dave Kelsen Guest

    Interesting opinion, and perhaps I overreacted. On the other hand,
    looking back in this thread, I quote the first reference to Consumer
    Reports:
    The reference here is clearly to the owner surveys, as *I* said, and
    *not* to CR's staff reviews, as you reference above. You clearly stated
    your opinion with respect to CR's staff reviews. You're deluded, but so
    are we all, about something; you're entitled. The point is, no one was
    arguing with you about it.

    For whatever *my* opinion is worth, I suggest to you the following: The
    size of CR's audience reflects the diversity of products they test, name
    recognition, and their many years in business.

    Further, I recommend that if you are unable to form an opinion uncolored
    by the pablum handed out by automobile manufacturers, I recommend that
    you do the best you can by reading a VARIETY of publications ...
    including C/R.

    RFT!!!
    Dave Kelsen
     
    Dave Kelsen, Nov 16, 2003
  18. elmo

    Brian Guest

    Anyone who quotes Consumer Reports and excepts to be taken seriously on an
    automotive forum is either a buffoon or a troll.
     
    Brian, Nov 16, 2003
  19. elmo

    Brian Guest

    Anyone who quotes Consumer Reports and excepts to be taken seriously on an
    automotive forum is either a buffoon or a troll.
     
    Brian, Nov 16, 2003
  20. Believe in flying saucers? No, I don't think so.
     
    Gordon McGrew, Nov 16, 2003
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