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How can you explain old car with leaky cylinders and
not perfect compression, dirty/worn out fuel injectors
etc, etc, using up less fuel than when they were new?

How exactly do you measure your gas mileage and what
is the mathematical error/uncertainity of this measurement?

 

Engine rings do not fail nearly as soon as they used to,
that's all. Without googling, I'd say technology has
improved additives to gas and engine oil, along with engine
materials, so engines last longer. You can google and find
more on why engines last longer these days. Even American
manufacturers' cars are lasting longer.

I have not read of fuel injector problems here, though
people have replaced them without any change in performance.
Tegger did a report a while back on what he saw when he
replaced his fuel injectors. Google the archives.

Seems like the only time we read here of a Honda with poor
compression is when the car has been driven hard. It's rare
to hear of someone's engine giving out here, unless it's due
to a failed timing belt.

Trip odometer set to zero at every fillup. Fill to one
click. Divide miles by gallons. Average over many fillups,
or a few.

MPG often falls off for many people simply due to poor basic
maintenance habits like not changing out the plug wires,
plugs, distributor cap, PCV valve, air filter, etc. Also,
failing to use OEM for these parts (air filter excepted) can
be detrimental to MPG, IMO.

 

Engine rings do not fail nearly as soon as they used to,
that's all. Without googling, I'd say technology has
improved additives to gas and engine oil, along with engine
materials, so engines last longer. You can google and find
more on why engines last longer these days. Even American
manufacturers' cars are lasting longer.

I have not read of fuel injector problems here, though
people have replaced them without any change in performance.
Tegger did a report a while back on what he saw when he
replaced his fuel injectors. Google the archives.

Seems like the only time we read here of a Honda with poor
compression is when the car has been driven hard. It's rare
to hear of someone's engine giving out here, unless it's due
to a failed timing belt.

Trip odometer set to zero at every fillup. Fill to one
click. Divide miles by gallons. Average over many fillups,
or a few.

MPG often falls off for many people simply due to poor basic
maintenance habits like not changing out the plug wires,
plugs, distributor cap, PCV valve, air filter, etc. Also,
failing to use OEM for these parts (air filter excepted) can
be detrimental to MPG, IMO.

 

I am not saying they last shorter, I am just saying
they consume little more than when they were new
and all was clean, matching perfectly and in order.

I simply cannot compute the argument that the car
with 185 thousand miles on the odometer can consume
less fuel than when it had - let's say - 10 thousand and
everything else was brand new and in perfect adjustment.

This is very unreliable method and you have many
sources of error factored to your calculations!

I see I am unable to convince you... that is ok, too

 

I am not saying they last shorter, I am just saying
they consume little more than when they were new
and all was clean, matching perfectly and in order.

I simply cannot compute the argument that the car
with 185 thousand miles on the odometer can consume
less fuel than when it had - let's say - 10 thousand and
everything else was brand new and in perfect adjustment.

This is very unreliable method and you have many
sources of error factored to your calculations!

I see I am unable to convince you... that is ok, too

 

Then you are not acquainted with changes in technology. Just
the use of unleaded fuel in the last 30 years has altered
engine life dramatically.

Nonsense, but thank you for convincing me you are a bullshit
artist.

 

Then you are not acquainted with changes in technology. Just
the use of unleaded fuel in the last 30 years has altered
engine life dramatically.

Nonsense, but thank you for convincing me you are a bullshit
artist.

 

Sure, and car after 200 thousand miles consumes less fuel
than the same car when it was brand new... of course

Here we go with name calling game... How mature is it?

You simply do not realize where are the sources of BIG errors
in your method. For example, starting at your shut-off nozzle,
it will shut-off in very random place near the top of the tank.
It will depend on the brand of the dispenser, velocity of the
fuel in the hose (how strong is the submersible on the site)
even the same nozzles will differ in the shut-off reaction time.
Shut off time will even depend on how deep you put nozzle in...
It will also depend on the particular fuel was delivered that
day on the site you refuel... If the gasoline happens to be
specially foamy that day, it may actuate the release mechanism
in the nozzle prematurely, with the result that you end up with
less than a full tank of gas. If you stop fueling in the middle
and let the foam settle, then fuel to the top it will be different.

Mixing city and highway milleage is also a huge factor in error
estimation. Ambient air temperature, weather condition (rain),
holiday period and less cars on the road, less stops&go.
Averaging can only help a little.

Well, good luck with your car!

 

Sure, and car after 200 thousand miles consumes less fuel
than the same car when it was brand new... of course

Here we go with name calling game... How mature is it?

You simply do not realize where are the sources of BIG errors
in your method. For example, starting at your shut-off nozzle,
it will shut-off in very random place near the top of the tank.
It will depend on the brand of the dispenser, velocity of the
fuel in the hose (how strong is the submersible on the site)
even the same nozzles will differ in the shut-off reaction time.
Shut off time will even depend on how deep you put nozzle in...
It will also depend on the particular fuel was delivered that
day on the site you refuel... If the gasoline happens to be
specially foamy that day, it may actuate the release mechanism
in the nozzle prematurely, with the result that you end up with
less than a full tank of gas. If you stop fueling in the middle
and let the foam settle, then fuel to the top it will be different.

Mixing city and highway milleage is also a huge factor in error
estimation. Ambient air temperature, weather condition (rain),
holiday period and less cars on the road, less stops&go.
Averaging can only help a little.

Well, good luck with your car!

 

I'm offended!

What would he call my '82 'n '83 junkers? Scrap???

Grrrrr

JT

(Just pokin' along with my ol' 42mpg junker...)

 

I'm offended!

What would he call my '82 'n '83 junkers? Scrap???

Grrrrr

JT

(Just pokin' along with my ol' 42mpg junker...)

 

but that doesn't make a damned bit of difference to an average!

no dude, the average /defines/ the whole exercise.

good luck with your math.

 

but that doesn't make a damned bit of difference to an average!

no dude, the average /defines/ the whole exercise.

good luck with your math.

 

1. 2008 - 1993 = 15. see my earlier comment about your math.

2. you don't seem to understand that modern cars are much heavier than
the older ones, and thus, because the extra weight takes more energy to
move around, many modern cars lose their fuel efficiency advantage
compared to older ones. or at least, older hondas. a literally 20 year
old crx hf can out-perform the current civic hybrid by some margin in
fuel economy ratings.

 

1. 2008 - 1993 = 15. see my earlier comment about your math.

2. you don't seem to understand that modern cars are much heavier than
the older ones, and thus, because the extra weight takes more energy to
move around, many modern cars lose their fuel efficiency advantage
compared to older ones. or at least, older hondas. a literally 20 year
old crx hf can out-perform the current civic hybrid by some margin in
fuel economy ratings.

 

15 years old junker or 20 years old junker - what is really the difference?

I was never comparing her 93 to todays 2008 models but I was comparing her
93 now with 185k miles to *the same car* when young, with 10k miles in 1993.
Do you really think her 93 with 185k burns less fuel than when it had 10k miles
on the odometer? I certainly doubt it.

 

15 years old junker or 20 years old junker - what is really the difference?

I was never comparing her 93 to todays 2008 models but I was comparing her
93 now with 185k miles to *the same car* when young, with 10k miles in 1993.
Do you really think her 93 with 185k burns less fuel than when it had 10k miles
on the odometer? I certainly doubt it.

 

It does if you want to extract city mpg from highway mpg.
If you take too much data into the average you will blurr
the difference between city/highway mileage and for some
cars it makes a huge difference.

It introduces some problems, too...

 

It does if you want to extract city mpg from highway mpg.
If you take too much data into the average you will blurr
the difference between city/highway mileage and for some
cars it makes a huge difference.

It introduces some problems, too...

 

You really don't know much do you?

A car with 10K on it will almost always be less fuel efficient than one
with 50K or more...

<sigh>

JT