Civic Battery Dead

A dead '95 Civic battery gave unusual results. Jumpering the battery allowed
it to idle the engine, but the moment I attempted to move it forward or in
reverse, the engine would stop. Its as though the battery was too weak to
muster enough energy to propel the car, but it could idle the car. Does that
make any sense? Does the Civic have an electric fuel pump that uses up a lot
of energy when in drive? What UNDER THE HOOD things use up electrical energy
while the car is running?

Once I replaced the battery, the car was back to normal. I have no idea if
its just a weird battery problem or if the alternator needs to be replaced.
I would like to find out before taking it to a Sears, for example. If I
know the alternator is bad, I'd rather pick a Honda specialty shop.

Any hints on testing the car's ability to charge the battery, without moving
it to a Sears, for example? A friend told me there was a headlight test to
check the alternator working properly.

 

Well if you use your headlights as a high drain test while the car is
running with the old battery then yes it is a decent test of the alternators
output. If the car is running and the battery is discharged then the
headlights would be dim if the alternator is not putting out enough juice.
If they stay bright while the car is running and the battery is not good
then you can probably safely assume the alternator is putting out.

It is possible to have a battery so discharged that if you try to move it it
will kill the engine but I wouldn't count on it. It sounds to me like you
should have your car checked out. Any shop can do an alternator/battery
test.

How old is the battery? Anything more than about 5 years in a climate not
subject to extreme desert heat and I say you got your money's worth out of
it.

The fuel pump is probably using just about the same amount of amperage
idling as when it is under way.

I would not go onto the path of finding out what things use up energy under
the hood while running. I would just get the charging system checked.

A simple volt meter test can tell you if the alternator is putting out
enough volts. The headlight test will help with amps if there is no other
equipment available.

 

I suspect you solved your problem. Most likely your ALT light would be
on if it wasn't charging right. The previous battery must have not been
able to hold a charge. When they go like this, the alternator's voltage
is supposed to be around 14V when running, but - because the battery
was bad - the voltage was most likely much less than that.

The headlight test is good but a better way is to put a volt meter
across the battery and make sure you see about 14V across it with the
engine running. This would indicate that the alternator is working
properly.

(you can still go to sears, though -- they have a cheap digital
multimeter on sale this weekend for sub $10

Remco

 

Yeah I had a battery do something almost the same once. It was getting
near dusk and I could drive the car (a CRX) but if I turned the
headlights on the engine would quit. Park lights I could get away
with. No the alternator belt wasn't loose or anything like that. A new
battery the next day and all was well. When cars had generators you
could even run them without a battery if you kept the revs up, but
alternators do funny things when the battery isn't right.

 

To be more exact, the Helm manual specifies 14.5 V +/- 0.6V for a
healthy charging system. Have someone step on the brakes while
measuring, as this defeats the fuel saving low-output mode.

 

the computer. flaky batteries can give flaky performance. any $3 harbor
freight voltmeter should give you a decent idea if the alternator is
still good.

 

First, thanks for the info. I will check the charging system today and
report back the results.

 

Here is the results of the battery test.

With a new Sears Battery to replace the old one, the car is able to start
and drive. It hasn't really been driven since the incident with the bad
battery. However, when I placed a Volt meter across the leads, I got the
following results.

(1) Battery Voltage with No Lights, Engine Off - 12.47 V

(2) Battery Voltage with Headlights On, Engine Off - 11.87 V

(3) Battery Voltage with No Lights, Engine Idling On - 12.29 V



This would appear to indicate its the alternator. Maybe that's what is was
all along. A run down battery and an alternator, unable to generate enough
juice.

Is it absolutely the alternator with the above 12.29 V reading? Could it be
a loose connection or some other thing?

 

if the engine is warmed up, idling normal, belt tight and all
connections to the alt and battery are clean and tight, then its very
likely the alternator

 

What is the battery voltage after running the engine at a high idle
~2000rpm for a few minutes?

 

While driving a car, you should see about 14 V (another post mentions
14.5V) across the battery.
I'd carefully check the connection from the alternator to the battery
and both connections on the battery -- take them off and clean them.

Also make sure you have a good ground: put the multimeter from the
battery negative to the body of the alternator -- you can measure it
with the resistance setting, but most meters have a hard time with low
resistances. It is better to put the meter to measure voltage and start
the car. You may see something in the order of 100 mV or so but nothing
like volts. Also clean off the ground connection.

Make sure your belt is not slipping.

Chances are your alternator is bad. In my area (CT) repair shops exist
that will fix them for around $40. You could probably also get a good
replacement alternator off eBay.

Remco

 

It'll be a day before I can verify what you recommended here. Regards $40,
you mean $400 for parts and labor, don't you? The Sears shop quoted around
$350 for the whole job and the Honda dealer quoted $450. The Sears guy said
it was difficult to get the alternator off the car and he would have to take
off some other components to get at it, therefore the high labor cost.

 

it *should* come out the bottom, with a little twisting around. if
theyre removing parts, they arent doing the job right.

 

Great input, I'll know more Friday. Thanks for the tip!

 

No, I mean $40 to have the alternator repaired: You take it off the
car, They'll fix it.
The one I've used does alternators and starters (these are more than
$40). Alternators often just have their diodes blown and are usually
pretty easy to fix, from what they've told me.

There might be similar shops in your area - it pays to shop around.

I've bought car parts on ebay and it has worked out for me so maybe
that is a good option for you too.
For instance, here's an alternator that seems to fit your car ending
Feb-04-05 23:07:19 PST:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=7950998669&category=6763

 

Worth a try.

How long can you drive with a brand new battery not recharging? For example,
can you make a few runs to a super market to buy groceries that is a
half-mile away?

 

You can't drive your car not too long with the battery not charging --
exactly how long would be hard to say because it depends on the load:
If it is cold, you might turn on your heating fan. If you are driving
at night, you will need to turn on your lights.

I would not count on it as it may leave you stranded. Murphy's law
dictates that it will be under the worst of circumstances.

Btw, when later you are able to check your alternator, try putting your
voltmeter across the output of the alternator (at the alternator's
larger connection and on its body). Be careful that the leads are not
getting tangled in the belt and keep your hands clear, obviously. You
should see 14V or more there when the car is running. If you don't,
chances are that your alternator is bad.

Also, should you need to replace it, be sure to get your hands on a
repair manual on your car. I am pretty sure that you need to take a
couple of things off and the alternator comes out from below on a
civic.

If you have never done it before, follow the instructions, take breaks
when you need them and take your time - you can do it.

Remco

 

Checking at the alternator seems like the best way to get at the root of the
problem.

When driving the car to a Honda specialist on Monday morning it'll have
nothing on except the car working the spark plugs, with no lights, heater,
et al. Isn't that the lightest possible load? All I need to get is about 5
miles.

 

It will get you there. Hope you'll get it fixed soon.
Remco