Civic drivetrain

My daughter (with me as co-owner) recently bought a 1992 Civic DX 4-dr
with 5-speed and 130,000 mi. The previous owner had it for 9 yrs and
kept meticulous records. I can drive it OK, but my daughter is having a
harder time than expected learning stick shift. There is a lot of
springiness in the drivetrain which means you have to do a good job
controlling the throttle & clutch, which I can do but my daughter can't
except under ideal conditions (not nervous about traffic). Would this
be fixed if the clutch was rebuilt? The previous owner has no record of
clutch work. My past stick-shift experience was mainly with a 1971 VW
which is a lot different from a Civic.

Dail Singleton

 

No, clutch repair can only eliminate wear and stress on the throwout
bearing, flywheel, pressure plate and clutch disk, therefore making the
whole process a little more manageable and smooth, however Honda's clutches
are by the design rough, harsh, sharp and require a lot of attention on the
side of driver. Once you over it - you have a lot to offer yourself as far
as fun driving is concerned.
It took my girlfriend almost 2 years to learn HOW to shift on my 95 Civic EX
Coupe. If she has to drive our second Honda: 92 Civic EX - she claims it is
like a completely different car with its own rules and quirks. Whatever.

Good luck. Honda is worth some pain while learning. Try to teach your
daughter to go from complete stop using only clutch pedal (NO gas) on 1st,
2nd, 3rd and maybe 4th gear. It gives a big deal of mutual understanding
between driver and a car.

Dimmi

 

Might wanna have the rubber engine mounts inspected.

--
Charles Tague
93 Honda Civic DX HB
1.6L SOHC VTEC 14.85 @ 89 mph,1.98 60 ft.
With ZEX 85 hp ZEX 13.09 @ 103 mph, 1.81 60ft.
86 Pontiac Trans Am
225/50/15 GForce Drag Radials
305 peanut cammed 15.29 @ 88 mph
http://home.cinci.rr.com/mistab0ne/

 

get rid of the car and get her one with an automatic.... by the time she
learns to use the stick shift the car will probably be wrecked????

 

how can you go from 1st-2nd-3rd-4th only using the clutch (no gas)!?--
that sounds impossible to me.
-mr. speck

 

I'd like to suggest that the best way to learn to drive a standard shift is
to learn to engage the clutch without stalling at idle. Do not touch the
accelerator pedal.

 

Well, 1st through 3rd - easily. 4th requires a little bit practice. Don't
say no before you try it.

 

If you let it go slow enough.

The other excercise to rock the car back and forth on a upward slope.

 

------------------------
Dial,

In addition to the other suggestions, check to see if the clutch
hydraulic (brake) fluid was changed when the brakes were flushed. Air in
the clutch line will make it hard for anybody to get the car to shift
properly (especially if they have short legs).

At 130,000 miles, you could also have a worn out TPS, which manifests
itself like a 'bucking bronco' when you're trying to 'crawl' along in
first gear (while looking for a parking spot). When you hit the right
RPM, the car will start acting like your passenger is flipping the
ignition key on and off. The RPM value happens to be the same speed that
the previous owner like to drive on the highway, in top gear. If you
have cruise, and live on the prairies, it's even more prevelant. TPS =
Throttle Position Sensor $$$$$$$ :-(

'Curly'
----------------------

 

After making 2 more trips in the car I am more steady and confident with
it myself, and have less feeling that there is something wrong
mechanically. However, I will keep an eye out for items mentioned in
this thread, and suggest more types of practice to my daughter. We have
only had the car 4 days and we have both been busy.

 

Your entire article is bogus. The only valid info would be starting from
stop, with only the clutch petal to get you going, while in FIRST gear.
(not 2nd or 3rd..etc).

Honda's clutch are not 'rough, harsh and sharp'. You obvoiusly haven't
driven any GM standard tranny. Also, a new clutch would make the take-up
more abrupt, which requires even more attention (assuming you're a
newbie), when compared to one that warn-in.

Pars

 

Here a few modification that might help with intial take-off.
-Lighter 15' aluminum wheels.
-A tune-up (I favour the platinum ngk plugs).
-K&N air filter (unless you live in very dusty area).

Pars

 

Thanks for your opinion.
My advice was based my own experience of teaching 2 people HOW to drive
stick Hondas. It worked for them, and it will work for you if you find a
spare minute between putting a lightweight wheels, K&N filters and platinum
plugs (each of them, of course impact clutch - we trust your experience.
Don't forget to close the trunk lid - clutch pedal may not go all the way
down.)

That guy has car with 130,000 miles on it. It is due for a new clutch (given
the fact that it has not been replaced yet). Worn-out clutch behaves
stupid - should be no doubt about it. Reconditioned clutch WILL improve
overall shifting experience right from the very moment it is put in (I would
disregard brake-in period).

Civics (at least the ones that I drove) all had rough, jerky and too much of
a sharp character. However, it was really fun to drive due to the increased
control over what I wanted to do on the road.

You can go from stop WITHOUT gas using only clutch pedal on 1st through 4th
gears.
Don't say no before you try it. It is the best practice to get used to the
clutch, "understand" the way it acts, and, therefore, to get as much fun as
possible after several months of stalling at the stop-and-go lights and
"bloody" parking attempts.

You may think whatever you are comfortable with, but this is my Honda
experience.

dimmi

 

little for info on this please. Very interesting.

 

In my opinion, the first thing you should show/teach her is how to start
from a stop in 1st gear without touching the gas.
Then, once she's comfortable with that and know where the friction point is,
let her try it on a slight hill. She should be able to make the car
staystill with no brakes. Of course, teaching her the hand brake trick for
really hard hills is always a good idea too.
Rebuilding the clutch would make the things even worse as a new clutch is
even more sensitive.
I owned 2 new Hondas, 2 Mazdas and 1 Nissan. In additon I drove over
extensive periods of time some Renaults, VWs, BMWs, Mercedes and Fords. All
stick shift. It's true that some are different but once you know how to
drive standard, doesn't make much difference. On the other hand, comparing
new cars, I agree that Honda clutches are more difficult than some other I
drove.

 

There is nothing wrong with that Civic's clutch. It just sucks. I don't like
the S2k's clutch either. Imo, S2k and Civic clutches suck big time. There is
this dead feeling when ever I press those clutches.

On my Civic, I drilled a new hole on the arm of the clutch pedal. This new
hole is 1/3 closer to the pivot point. This reduce clutch pressure by 1/3. I
adjusted the stop bolt so that the clutch pedal now is only 1/2 the distance
from the floor from original. Full range clutch travel is now only 1/2 of
stock. Engagement and disengagement are so much better now. It make shifting
much more enjoyable.

One odd experience of teaching my brother and sisters to drive stick in my
civic is that they tend to burn the clutch after a couple of hours. This
heat make getting into 1st gear impossible. If you ever run into this
situation, don't panic. 2nd gear would be still good. Just the 1st gear
would be dead. After normal driving to cool down the transmission, 1st gear
should be normal again.

 

I think it depends on the year. I've driven two different '91
Civics (including one that I owned for 5 years) that were very
hard to drive smoothly, because their clutches tended to "grab"
suddenly instead of engaging smoothly. I've also owned '77, '84,
and '97 Civics that had much smoother clutches.

Learning to drive a stick shift takes a lot of practice, no
matter how you go about it. Drive it every day for a month or so
before you give up on it. Eventually you get used to it, and then
you won't worry about it anymore.

 

Actually, my big complaint about Honda clutches is they're extremely
vague and light. You get no feedback at all from the pedal. It gets
even worse in cold weather, when the pedal lags behind your foot.

I used to have a '75 VW with a cable-operated clutch. The pedal effort
actually changed at the engagement point. That would be ideal for
learning on. A Honda is going to be tougher.

That said, though, I learned to drive stick on an '87 Ford Aerostar
5-speed, which I think had one of the worst hydraulic clutch systems
ever from a driver's standpoint, so it can be done.

Every car is a bit different, as I'm finding out as I test-drive
different used cars. The other day I drove an '80 Mercedes 300D. That
clutch was terrible. It engaged with a jerk about half an inch off the
floorboard. A Saab 900 I drove had a smooth but incredibly heavy
clutch. I think the nicest clutch I've used in this round of test
drives was on a Volvo 240 wagon with an almost new clutch. Nice effort,
not too heavy, and *really* smooth take-up. Like butter. I was smooth
right from the start on that car.

 

Hmm, nobody taught me drive a standard. One day, I had to pick-up a car and
drive it home, from one end of the city to the next. To my surprise, the car was
a standard (I've never driven a standard before that). I got it home without
stalling. At the time, I was with my two brothers and they were just as clueless
as myself regard the 5spd. So, I took control of the wheels and got us home
safely. Neeedless to say, my other two brother also learned how to drive
standard from said car (82 Datson) without any third party instructor.

I've gone through two clutch replacement in the past. A Datson and a 85 CRX. It
each occation, the clutch take-up became more responsive (abrupt) after the new
clutch installation. A worn-out clutch will slip when engaged abroptly, which
may prevent the car from stalling. Personaly, I'm waiting for my clutch to start
to go bad before I use it as an instructional tool. After 5 years, my shifter is
still tight and drive-train flex is not an issue. I don't want it screwed-up by
having a newbie drive wrech having on the drivetrain. However, with a bad
clutch, there's less stress/flex exhibit on the drivetrain when the newbie
messes up.

Rough Jerky?? I've got a standard Civic. My wife has the same car in automatic
form. My car can be driven more smoother then her automatic (assuming that I'm
cruising and not in my normal driving mode).

I though you ment starting off in 2nd or 3rd (which would be idiotic for a
newbie driver). I occationaly start-off from 2nd, in stop and go driving to keep
the driving experience smooth, but this technique is left for the more
expereince driver, esspecially when dealing with a low torque Civic.

In my experience, the best way to introduce youself to a standard tranny is to
burn the shit out of the clutch and mabe some rubber while you're at it.
Otherwise, you're missing out on the entire 'standard' driving experience. If
you're not punching off smooth downsift or holding the rpm's around the turn,
then you best throw in the towl and get an automatic for your next car.

Ditto

Pars
98 Civic Hatch

 

I've never felt that way at all, and I've owned a couple manual-tranny
Hondas (CRX Si, Prelude Si). The clutches were plenty good.