civic oil filters redux

as it should if it's full of oil. what i'm talking about, and what you
admit you haven't done, is checking the situation when the motor has
stood for 30-60 minutes before unscrewing the filter. if the filter is
empty, the drain valve leaked. and 100% of the honda filters i have
used, new and old type, have drained completely empty when left to
stand. none of the quality aftermarket filters i have used - champion
labs, denso, npn, have done this.

 

sorry dude, that's not correct. any "vacuum" associated with filtration
is a function of flow rate. if the rate is effectively zero, as with a
filter sitting on your drive way, there is zero vacuum, and it
/definitely/ shouldn't hold against simple gravity drain.

to the point of exit. because the filter is mounted horizontally, it
should thus retain oil to the bottom of the center hole. filters with
leaky drainback valves don't do that - they empty completely.

that's simply talking about draining the filter! there is no "vacuum"
since there is no flow rate - they are incorrect using that word.
punching a hole is just creating an exit for the oil to drain out.

 

The point is that the oil will not seep through the medium until you do
what they say to do.

jim, please try this yourself. Use a newish filter with low miles on it,
just so "clogging" isn't a significant variable.

Hold the oil filter open end up. The oil in a used filter will not pass
into the center pipe until you push the drainback flap open. As soon as you
push the flap open with a punch or screwdriver or anything else, the oil
will immediately begin to fill the center pipe by passing through the
medium.

I have seen this so many times with my very own eyes.

 

My Integra is allowed to sit a half-hour or so after putting it up on the
ramps. This is because allowing the center pipe to drain makes much less
mess on the block when the filter is then removed. Plus the ewxhaust is
cooler then, so I'm less likely to burn myself.

The Tercel is drained after sitting OVERNIGHT.

Both cars' filters ARE STILL FULL. I push the flap open, the center pipe
begins to fill from the dirty side. But not before the flap is pushed open.

Try it.

 

but it does!

i have.

it does.

it may go slightly faster, but it still passes through without that.

if the filter is full, it refills the center tube regardless of fiddling
with the valve. it may be faster with the valve opened, but if the
medium is not allowing oil through, it's clogged. end of story.

but we're talking at crossed purposes - this has nothing to do with
whether the filter empties because of a leaking drain-back valve. if
the filter empties, i.e. no center pipe filling, and it weighs the same
as an empty filter, and /there is no spill when unscrewing the filter/
the drainback valve is leaking. period. you should test this part of
what i said before getting sidetracked onto arguments about filter
medium flow.

 

apart from the technical misunderstanding, it appears that you have been
lucky enough to get filters with working valves. my experience is that
all my honda filters have had leaky valves, none of my aftermarket ones
have. repetition is getting us nowhere.

 

The smaller filter was around for a long time, wonder what made Honda
go to that size in recent years. Cheaper freight?

If they perform the same why the larger filter in the first place. I
use Bosch Filtech or Purolator PureOne. Both are the larger version.

 

"Lucky"? For 14 years?

I change my oil about six times a year. That's 84 filters over that time
(ALL OEM), not counting the dozen or so (OEM) for the Tercel. I must be
awfully lucky indeed to have had 83 out of 84 filters with good valves when
I should have had precisely the opposite experience.

 

again, we're talking at crossed purposes. i'm talking about a leaking
valve, which you have not seen, where the filter completely empties
before it's taken off the car, not whether the center pipe fills - a
different matter entirely.

 

You could have made your own strap wrench. Take a half inch extension
(the cheapest you can find... rusty thrown out ones found in garbage
bins are the best... because they're free), acquire a 10 or 12 inch
length of braided flat cable (steel), one inch or so wide, braze the ends
of the cable to the extension flats so you have a flat cable loop on the
end of the extension, slip the loop on the filter, insert half inch drive
ratchet and turn (flat cable needs to loop on itself to bind). As always,
check clearances when building things.

My strap type oil filter wrench (with hinged handle) has yet to be
stymied. I did modify it decades ago by gluing (contact cement) a strip
of emery cloth to the inside of the strap for terrific grip.

They will on a 3Gee, and they do it at the prescribed 3/4 turn from gasket
contact at the base. The old large OEM and non OEM filters needed
the filter wrench to get the 3/4 turn (except for Arnold where muscle
power is always a no problemo for him). The pee-wee filters go 3/4 turn by
hand.The above refers to a 3Gee. I always scribe a line on the end of
the filter can with a screwdriver before installing. A radial line from
the center.

 

(M.A. Stewart) wrote in

I have a suspicion that people who are bottoming out the filter are seating
it too far down before measuring that 3/4 turn. Overtorquing it, in other
words.

The gasket must /just barely/ kiss the sealing surface, and /no more/ than
that. It takes an extremely delicate touch to feel exactly when it contacts.

The new filters were made with a different base plate design in order to
address complaints about leaking in cold weather with the old filters.
Apparently many people were hand-tightening the old filters as though they
were square-gasket aftermarkets, and applying too little torque.

 

I only have one, the OEM oil filter wrench I bought from H and A a few
years ago for my '03 Accord. Current price = $18.65.