Civic vs Corola

We are thinking on buy a new car. I had several civics and I was looking at
the new corolla. Toyota has $500 rebate, but Honda has a 1.9% interest rate.
Both look like good cars, and I know Toyota is as dependable as the civics.
I am looking for opinions on the corolla, what do you think about both cars?
I know invoice price on corollas, but all of them include extra "packages"
which is hard to know what's a good price for the packages.
I need a dependable car which I will keep for around 6 years, and of course
residual value is important.
Thanks for your opinions.

 

You can get Corollas with automatic & air for less than $11K here.... Civics
are $14K. Guess which I'm going for.



-=-
I smell....

..... therefore, you stink.
-=-

 

Then get a 2004. Purchasing a 2003 at this time of year is a false saving.
I think that the Corolla is superior to the Civic. My wife got a 2004 1
month ago. It has much more zest than previous generation. It is actually
fun-to-drive. Comfy and reasonnably quiet. Good fit and finish. On the
minus side, engine is a bit rough at high rpm and steering position is too
high to my taste.

 

How do you deal with the option packages? how necessary are they?

 

Test drive some more and get whatever feels better. Six years is no
sweat for either car.

 

Instead of looking what are prices of the packages, look the other way
around:
which options are important for you?
which ones are less important but you'd like to have them if the price is
interesting?

For example, for me, must to have:
manual transmission
A/C
CD player
power windows
power mirrors (preferably heated)
cruise control
keyless entry

Nice to have:
mags
spoiler
fog lights

etc.

 

I would recommend the civic, Honda's hold their value better, as well the
honda civic just happens to be the cheapest to insure. If you go for the
civic LX model it comes with alot of the options included.

 

Yes, you got a good point. It's just that I visited a dealer last weekend
and they have a package that you "get" with the car, is already listed on
the window sticker. So I will need to know how to deal with that

 

I somewhat disagree with you, Saintor. Toyota did something funky to their
transmissions in brand new Corolla and Matrix models. I testdrove a Matrix
with a sports package, and it was accelerating like crap, and it was a 220
HP engine! Same goes for Corollas. It feels like you row a boat. What's up
with the rattling noise on the driver side and the rotten-egg smell in new
models?

The point is, in terms of reliability, resell value, etc (IMHO) Civics and
Corollas break even. I think Honda has a wider variety of Civics to choose
from, though...


Milan

 

There are two different sorts of "packages".

If it's a dealer add-on like rust proofing, pin stripes, extended
warranties, on and on, they are definitely negotiable down to zero.

If it's a Toyota option (air conditioning, cold weather package, sun
roof, etc.) the dealer won't just give those to you. You have to get
the dealer to find or order a car without the package you don't want.

The problem with the latter is that it may be impossible to find. The
regional distributor tends to order "average" cars, with just a few
variations. E.g., my Echo lists power steering as an option, but all
the cars come with it.

If a dealer agrees to find an unusual car, and requires a deposit:

- Pay the deposit with a credit card

- Negotiate how long they have to look. The contract may say 60 days,
but you can cross it out and put 10 days if you don't want your
money committed for 2 months.

 

I hope that by 'zest' you are not simply referring to 'power', as it
is only marginally better...

2002 model
125hp @ 5800RPM
125ft-lb @ 4000RPM
2410lbs curb weight

2003+ model
130hp @ 6000RPM
125ft-lb @ 4200RPM
2568lbs curb weight


These numbers were taken from Edmunds.com from the CE model w/AT. As
you can see, the power numbers are slightly higher, but at also a
slighter higher RPM and a bit heavier vehicle. In effect, it is
mostly negated.

But FWIW, I find the styling much nicer. ;-)

- Kevin

 

gezz did anything else change like the trans?

 

Given that both are great cars I'd lean towards the Toyota because its
engine won't crash like the Honda if the timing belt breaks.

 

I don't know. I test-drove both recently and was unimpressed with
both. Just felt cheap. Then I drove a few other cars and the
Sentra and Jeta also felt cheap.

Still looking for a good econobox.

 

Belts are a cost-saving measure that gives more money to the mechanics
down the road - both bad things for the consumer. A chain? I've
never owned a car with a chain that even needed replacing. Maybe
check it every so often to make sure it isn't stretched. As in
every 3-4 years.

Interference designs with a belt are asking to implode if that
things breaks. Poor engineering as well.

Of the two, I'd go for a chain and interference over a belt and
non-interference if I had to choose.

 

They are similar but I would say that the Civic has more engine noise,
is made to rev a little higher, and has a better clutch if you want a
manual transmission. It's thought to have a better suspension, dual
wishbone, etc.

The Corolla is quieter, mine can't really be heard at 60-70 mph.

I have an older Corolla though. The new ones have a high door, so you
kind of feel like a little old lady behind the wheel. I like to have
windows open and have my upper arm resting on the window well, with my
forearm vertical and fingers on the upper part of the door. I
couldn't do that in the new Corolla, so I didn't like it.

Plus the new Corolla looks ungainly and awkward.

 

Careful George.... Toyota is noted for making DOHC engines with a cam
belt driving ONLY one cam while the second cam is gear driven from the
first cam. ;^)

Agreed. One thing Honda engines are not known for is .... poor
engineering. But a causual look at Honda's motorcycle engines finds low
RPM (<8,000 redline) engines with belts, medium RPM (<12,000 redline)
engines get chains, high RPM (>12,000 redline) engines get gears. Of
course there are compromises and exceptions such as the Hornet 250 four
cylinder with chain driven cams and a 17,000 rpm redline.
--

Philip

"If a long train of abuses, prevarications, and artifices, all tending
the same way, make the design visible to the people . tis not to
be wondered that they should then rouse themselves."
- John Locke (1632-1704)

 

I have an '03 Corolla. :^) The single piece trailing arm in the
Corolla *does* make for more roll stiffness than earlier generation
Corolla's. The Civic's rear suspension is more sophisticated and
probably works better thru bumpy corners.

Gee.... I prop my arm up in the manner you describe quite often. Are you
of short stature?

There is more head room and a more chair-like seating position. Coming
from the line haul trucking profession, I prefer this to being slouched
back with arms and feet extended. "Ungainly?" If that's what keeps "the
kids" who buy Civics (and lower/chop/whatever) then I chose the right car
.... a Corolla.
--

Philip

"If a long train of abuses, prevarications, and artifices, all tending
the same way, make the design visible to the people . tis not to
be wondered that they should then rouse themselves."
- John Locke (1632-1704)

 

I was not aware that the Toyota is now chain driven, I guess it just
makes them that much better, although I'm surprised that they are now an
interference design. I agree chains last much longer but what about the
Honda. Are they still an interference design and using belts?

 

Toyota has been making interference engines for a while. I tested it on
my 88 Tercel when I changed its timing belt. The pistons did bump the
valves when I hand turned the crankshaft.

Hondas are interference engines with belts. The belt change intervals
are around 105K miles. The cost is about $600 USD at a dealership for
replacing the belt, oil seals, and water pump. That's nothing compared
to the cost of gasoline needed to drive $105K miles.