Civic vs Corola

Don't even get me started on Honda Motorcycles. They make the best
motorcycles out there - BUT - do not import anything decent to the U.S.
market. We get second and third and fourth generation recycled crud
barring the racing models(which you have to grey-market in)

Not to mention what they gouge at the dealers for parts and repairs.

 

Hondas are still belt driven, except for the S2000. What does that
suggest? ;^) Chain drives seem to be synonymous with interference.
--

Philip

"If a long train of abuses, prevarications, and artifices, all tending
the same way, make the design visible to the people . tis not to
be wondered that they should then rouse themselves."
- John Locke (1632-1704)

 

NO Tercel was ever an "interference" design. (3A, 3E, or 5E). Did you
have a diesel? ;^)

--

Philip

"If a long train of abuses, prevarications, and artifices, all tending
the same way, make the design visible to the people . tis not to
be wondered that they should then rouse themselves."
- John Locke (1632-1704)

 

The new Honda 4-cyl in the Acura RSX, Civic Si and the Accord, the K-Series
engine, is chain driven. It's actually been in use for a few years now in
the Stream, JP only model AFAIK.

Rgds, George Macdonald

"Just because they're paranoid doesn't mean you're not psychotic" - Who, me??

 

Uhhh - forgot about that - reminds me of our '93 Camry... and that weird
spring-loaded gear drive. Even a SOHC chain is a different animal from the
push-rod jobs though.

Well in cars I'm hoping the new engines with chain driven cams will work
out OK - Toyota with theirs and Honda with the 4-cyl K-Series engines...
the only two mfrs who really interest me at the moment. It's early yet,
especially for Honda but I haven't seen any reports of early failure or
trouble so far. The Corolla chain driven cam engine has been around for a
while now but I have no knowledge of how far they are going without
chain/sprocket replacement... any word on that?... any noisiness developing
with age? I remember the days when I could tell a Ford (Kent series engine
?) coming down the street behind me by the chain rattle.

Rgds, George Macdonald

"Just because they're paranoid doesn't mean you're not psychotic" - Who, me??

 

It was an October 1988 Tercel, 3E (single barrel carb), drivability mods
(didn't help), AC mods, and it absolutely was an interference engine. I
remember being quite startled when I hand turned the crankshaft and a
piston whacked a valve hard enough to turn the camshaft. I was scared
as hell until the car was back together and compression test came out OK.

I later found that being an interference design made replacing the
infamous valve stem oil seals much easier. All I had to do was move a
cylinder to TDC, compress the valve spring, and the keepers would pop
right out.

Around 1997, it appeared that somebody was putting cat litter in my
parking space every day. Odd. Well, it turned out to be bits of the
head gasket. I was sick of a decade of cleaning PCV crud out its
suction-piston carburetor, unjamming vacuum solenoids, replacing
scattered thermostats that leaked their wax, replacing gaskets, putting
up with its acceleration jerks and hesitation, listening to the engine
ping, unjaming the front brake calipers, welding air cleaner cracks, and
greasing it's rear wheel bearings. It was an automobile repair class,
not a method of transportation. I donated it the next year and got a
Civic. Maybe it's because it's newer, but a 97 Civic's engineering
makes the 88 Tercel look like an old Yugo.

 

Again, there are options. Honda's motorcycle engines do use roller
chains and Morse HyVo design chains to drive the cam(s). For their
ulitimate high speed engines, the choice is Morse. Now... in car
engines, the roller chain seems to be the preferred choice, perhaps
because of lower RPMs, because of the degree of deflection needed, and
because replacement can be a "thread thru" affair because a roller chain
has a master link
--

Philip

"If a long train of abuses, prevarications, and artifices, all tending
the same way, make the design visible to the people . tis not to
be wondered that they should then rouse themselves."
- John Locke (1632-1704)

 

Ok, then you account for why in the Gates Belt cataloge that NO such
distinction exists. We also have our resident career Toyota techinician
stating Tercel was only a non-interference engine. ;^)

http://www.gates.com/brochure.cfm?brochure=981

Click on "Timing Belt Replacement Guide." ONLY vehicles with an
asterisk next to the make/model are interference engines.

Toyota has a very strong tradition (with a couple exceptions) of their
belt drive engines being non interference.
--

Philip

"If a long train of abuses, prevarications, and artifices, all tending
the same way, make the design visible to the people . tis not to
be wondered that they should then rouse themselves."
- John Locke (1632-1704)

 

No, I'm 6'0". Maybe it was just me. I test drove a 03 Corolla. The
inside seemed cheaper than my 95. The seat adjustment for example was
one knob instead of a pull thing and a seat incling.

 

Just between you and me, the interior *is* cheaper that Corollas of the
1990's. I sold off a 1990 Geo Prizm for the new Corolla. The Geo's
interior had only *two* interior rattles by the time I sold the car with
285,000 miles on the odometer. This Corolla's interior on a washboard
dirt road or driving over cobbles stones is pathetic. I recently
identified on this formun nearly 10 souces of rattles which ... really
deserves a trip to the dealer. The radio alone has two separate and
distinct noises when the car's rear axle hits a sharp road irregularity.
The *generous* use of "hard plastic" and snap interlocks with no
cushioning between them seems to be a recurring culprit. Regarding
the seats, I have a CE model which has an easy to grab bar along the
forward edge to adjust fore/aft and a easy to operate lever to adjust the
back angle. Don't know nuthin' about a "knob."
--

Philip

"If a long train of abuses, prevarications, and artifices, all tending
the same way, make the design visible to the people . tis not to
be wondered that they should then rouse themselves."
- John Locke (1632-1704)

 

Consider that I only spent $400 Canadian for a timing belt, water pump
and coolant replacement after 100,000km. The belt/chain issue doesn't
seem to be a deciding factor.

However, if you plan on designing an engine that doesn't require
maintenance..belt would be the way to go.

I put 250,000 km of hard driving on my 3.1L Corsica that was chain
driven. That car had an extremely durable engine &
transmission..(however the rest of the car was crap). Maintenance cost
for the Corsica was significantly lower (when compared to my Civic
Hatch) since I never took the GM to the dealership nor did I do any of
the recommended maintenance. That car got only oil changes and a
transmission flush at about 80,000km. During it's life span, It needed 3
rebuilt alternator ($65 each), a New water pump.

Pars
98 Hatch

 

Corolla doesn't have a coupe with 5 star safety rating. So, we're only
comparing sedans. Both the Civic Sedan and Corolla sedan are evenly
matched. The deciding factor would be the manufactor/dealer incentives
and minor personal taste. Personally, If I were in the market for an
econo sedan, I'd get the older version of the Honda Sedan (good thing
for me that I already have one *grin*)

Pars
98 Hatch

 

I don't know how to explain it, but it was an interference engine. The
compression was 215psi. It cracked spark plugs every 20K miles. I
adjusted the air intake thermostat down to 80F and it still had problems
with pre-detonation (not timing related) and run-on. Maybe the engine
was put together wrong.

 

Alas the double wishbone in the front of a Civic is no more with the latest
version. Like most other economy cars and a fair number of even expensive
ones, MacPherson is to blame for the struts now used there.

Is there a new car which doesn't look ungainly? Well maybe the Infiniti
G35 but most family cars look like a wheelbarrow going down the road. Is
there some reason for the high beltlines other than stylistic - maybe
safety related, in conjunction with side/curtain airbags? If it's just
style, IMO it's a complete and utter, catastrophic failure.

Rgds, George Macdonald

"Just because they're paranoid doesn't mean you're not psychotic" - Who, me??

 

Kevin... give it up. You don't understand something about "interference"
and I don't have enough years left in my life to ferret out your
misunderstanding. :^)
--

Philip

"If a long train of abuses, prevarications, and artifices, all tending
the same way, make the design visible to the people . tis not to
be wondered that they should then rouse themselves."
- John Locke (1632-1704)

 

Hondas along with the Nissan belt driven units are colliders. I know the
newest Nissans have become non


--





Hey, do you smell that? Smells like something died?
Is it dogshit on the bottom of your feet?
Nope, its just Uday and Qusay!
I slept better last night knowing they have assumed
room temperature!
Looking forward to seeing these rotting corpse of these thugs
on TV!

 

Yes, 'tis true the diesels and 4.7L V8 gas will attempt to make solid
parts occupy the same space at the same time (crunch). But the gasoline
engines listed for American Tercels are not interference.
--

Philip

"If a long train of abuses, prevarications, and artifices, all tending
the same way, make the design visible to the people . tis not to
be wondered that they should then rouse themselves."
- John Locke (1632-1704)

 

1984/85 1.8L diesel lists as non-interference. Hmmm! The odd man out!
--

Philip

"If a long train of abuses, prevarications, and artifices, all tending
the same way, make the design visible to the people . tis not to
be wondered that they should then rouse themselves."
- John Locke (1632-1704)

 

Despite how it should have been, the valves and pistons did bang
together when the crankshaft was turned by hand without a timing belt.
I had even re-tried it a few times, but much slower, to see if that's
what was happening.

 

Interesting!


--





Hey, do you smell that? Smells like something died?
Is it dogshit on the bottom of your feet?
Nope, its just Uday and Qusay!
I slept better last night knowing they have assumed
room temperature!
Looking forward to seeing these rotting corpse of these thugs
on TV!