Ya, that's two people who've suggested the Scion ...altho I have yet to see one here. Looks nice tho ...I'll ask my Toy dealer this weekend about them. Anyone here have any true values for MPG for the Matrix ...city and highway. Those "official" ratings are useless. Thanks again for the feedback everyone. [QUOTE] For your needs, and as a Honda err enthusiast, I'd say the Corolla - boring but reliable, durable and possibly closer to bullet-proof... and Honda is not offering anything to trump it now... like the superior DW suspension system they used to have - sad that. The old Civic SOHC Honda engine is umm, tired! If you can live with a 2-door hatch - we did with our kids back then with a Rabbit and Beetle as 2nd car - take a look at the Scion tC... a lot of car for the $$ if the price stands... and you get Toyota "build". Check out www.scionlife.com. Rgds, George Macdonald "Just because they're paranoid doesn't mean you're not psychotic" - Who,[/QUOTE] me??