Condensation removal....

they still sell top loaders

 

Hah hah. I can't see anything but destruction in my future from doing
that... either the system overheats cuz there aren't enough holes, or
there are too many holes to keep it warm. I could blow a few units
trying to get it right! I can live with it.

 

Now THIS makes perfect sense. (I'd have to look up the temp at which
refrigerants go liquid to confirm or deny Steve G's belief.) I'm almost
certain that the A/C on my old 85 Pontiac would cycle at any temp,
though. I'll check up with the Honda soon.

Anyway, I doubt it would be that difficult (in the original design) to
construct an airflow system that would shunt warmer air around the evap
unit when the temp dropped in winter, in order to preserve the
dehumidifying characteristics of an A/C-based system.

 

Philip,
We're talking about two different controls. There are sensors, or in older
cars, capillary tubes at the evaporators monitoring evap temp to control
what you're talking about, evaporator icing. In late model cars that also
cycled the compressor as that was how pressure/flow of refrigerant was
maintained. But there is also an ambient temp sensor that would not allow
the compressor to run below a certain outside air temp in order to prevent
hydraulic lock-up of the compressor due to refrigerant being in a liquid
state in the comp head. Refrigerant "boils" and becomes vapor at a low
temp, that's one of the reason it's used as a refrigerant. If the temp
drops below that "boiling point" on the low pressure side the gas will
condense back into a liquid and hydraulicly lock up the compressor. I
mentioned the diference in the refrigerants as a possible explanation for
why the posters old lincoln a/c would run at temps below his late model
mustang, however I was simply stating that the American government didn't
regulate this 40F cutout, the laws of physics did.
Steve.

 

You would also have to direct warm air to the entire low pressure side of
the ac system to prevent the condensing of refrigerant gas back into liquid.
I live in a climate of 10 months of winter and 2 months poor sledding, have
been a licensed mechanic since about '72 and have never seen an ac comp
cycle in ambient temps colder than somewhere around that 40 degree mark.
and remember from my days in tech school that is the reason.
Don't forget when researching boiling point of refrigerant to factor in the
pressure. Adding pressure also raises the boiling point. As I'm typing
this I'm also recalling that there are cautions that when servicing/charging
the system to not allow low side pressure to drop too low for fear of
damaging the compressor. Go to K-mart and look at the labeling/cans of 134a
they market to the consumers and read the instructions. When charging you
override the low side cutout so you can keep the compressor running. In
this situation, temp above ambient cut-out and low pressure limit overidden,
a drop in low side pressure can take it below it's boiling point and risk
liquid refrigerant in the compressor. The warning on the charging kit
doesn't get into the explanation, but does give the caution about low side
pressure drops and damage to the compressor.
Steve

 

You have to know that MikeHunt is retired 'gentry' ... who knows little
beyond what his house servants relay to him on this subject.

 

Thank you ('perfect sense'). Note that I said "air coming into the
evaporator." If air door is set to FRESH and the inducted air from outside
is below 38-40°F, all one need do (considering all the heat radiating off
the passenger(s), is select RECIRCULATE so that the air inducted to the
evaporator stays above 38-40°F. This will keep the A/C running. Remember
.... once the evaporator effectively become a solid block of ice, there will
be NO dehumidification.

 

Question for you: Water condensation *on* the evaporator surface freezes at
32°F. At what temperature does low pressure refrigerant gas condense to a
solid liquid? Keep in mind that it is common to see frost all over much of
the exiting line from the evaporator leading to the compressor inlet while
the A/C system is functioning normally. Clue: it's lower than 32°F.

Not entirely accurate. The compressor's inlet side can drop into a slight
vacuum when a suction throttling valve is used on the outlet side of the
evaporator instead of an expansion valve to regulate refrigerant flow into
the evaporator. In any case, the low side pressure safety switch (if/when
there is one installed) will prevent such a condition from occurring on
systems equipped with only an expansion valve. Excessive high side pressure
is FAR more damaging to compressors which is why a high pressure safety
switch is present on all but the oldest automotive systems.

 

Stop. Evaporator icing prevention has been prevented electrically by
cycling the compressor since I can recall (late '50's). Evaporator icing
prevention has also been prevented mechanically by the use of expansion
valves ... LONG before GM's cheap, clog prone capillary tubes ... by
regulating refrigerant based on expansion valve temperature.

Late model. LOL

This is false. Evaporator core surface temperature is the primary concern
because the freezing of water condensation on the evaporator/s exterior
surfaces will block air flow. There is never solid liquid refrigerant
condensed in the compressor inlet line, regardless of ambient temperature.
Well... there *could* be if the system were grossly overcharged.

 

Why do you always seem to find it necessary to stoop to personal
assaults? Have I ever personally attacked you or anyone in a
NG? I would suggest you do some research before you choose to
comment on a subject of which you obviously are not fully
informed, or at least say in my opinion

One can still buy Freon, as well, but it can not be
manufactured.



mike hunt

 

Mike ... you have always hinted around at your wealth on this and several
other forums. Don't even try ... to go humble on me. LOL If you
interpreted my comment as a negative, send me a check sufficient to remove
that discomfort for being "gentry". ;-)

There are plenty of appliance outlets including Sears that sell NEW top
loaders today. And so long as the price of a front loader is relatively
high, politics (poor people disproportionately affected) will delay your
notion ... or there will be a government subsidy. LOL

 

Why does a glass of Ice water condensate in the Summer? Same reason your
windows fog up. Turning on the A/C in conjunction with the heater will help
dissipate the fog. The A/C puts out a dryer air than just the heater alone.
The heater will eventually dry up the fog, but it takes a while since it
depends on the coolant in your engine for heat. It's also a good thing to
run the A/C in the winter to stir up the coolant.

Don't have A/C? Then you're SOL, just kidding. Buy Rain-X Anti-Fog or that
pink wax stick you see at the home shows, and wipe it on your inside
windows. I rub the pink stuff on a terry shop towel and keep it under the
seat of all my cars for that purpose. Don't wipe your windows while
driving, pull over to a safe place and stop before wiping your windows.

Good Luck and Safe Driving!
JW

 

Why does a glass of Ice water condensate in the Summer? Same reason your
windows fog up. Turning on the A/C in conjunction with the heater will help
dissipate the fog. The A/C puts out a dryer air than just the heater alone.
The heater will eventually dry up the fog, but it takes a while since it
depends on the coolant in your engine for heat. It's also a good thing to
run the A/C in the winter to stir up the coolant.

Don't have A/C? Then you're SOL, just kidding. Buy Rain-X Anti-Fog or that
pink wax stick you see at the home shows, and wipe it on your inside
windows. I rub the pink stuff on a terry shop towel and keep it under the
seat of all my cars for that purpose. Don't wipe your windows while
driving, pull over to a safe place and stop before wiping your windows.

Good Luck and Safe Driving!
JW

 

Can I have a check, too? I could use a new front loader.

Aaron

 

Check for a water leak into the passenger compartment.

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Wipe on Anti-Fog. No need for A/C nor Defroster...

 

Wipe on Anti-Fog. No need for A/C nor Defroster...

 

Check that you have the HVAC controls to get air from outside, not just
recirculate interior air. All of the moisture in your breath, and that of
your passengers, will condense on the windows if you just recirculate the
interior air.

 

I always use a clean terry towel to de fog my 1985 volvo interior windows,
works well.

 

Oh, duh! That's a pretty easy solution. I think this answers Steve G,
too. Now if we only have a cold day around here on which I'm driving so
I can check it out on my Honda... not that I really want a cold day just
to check this, of course. ;-)