Consider buying American!

ok, let me re-state for the pedants:

"neither of these two statements are wrong".

happy now?[/QUOTE]

no, that's incorrect:

"neither of these two statements is wrong" is the correct phrasing.

"Neither is wrong" is the base phrase, "neither" being singular. Adding
the parenthetical "of these two statements" doesn't change anything.
The "is wrong" is not directly tied to the plural "two statements", but
rather to the initial "neither" which is singular.

Therefore you don't say "are wrong", you say "is wrong". Now, if you
said "those two statements are wrong," that's correct. Statements is
plural, so you use the plural of the verb. But the "neither" pulls out
each of the statements individually; "neither is wrong" is the same as
saying "neither the first statment is wrong no the second statement is
wrong".

You wouldn't say, "neither the first statement are wrong nor the second
statement are wrong".

 

that's like most hondas. i don't see the problem. this stuff is not
hard to get at. i can see that it might not be "obvious" for a
first-timer, if they don't have the book, but it's not like hondas need
a bunch of special tools other than a pulley holder.

it just unbolts. you need to support the motor from underneath, but
that's not a problem.

if you're learning on the job. and the bolts are 12mm, 14mm, & 17mm.

the point is, you don't get this at all with a belt. nada. nothing.
belts do not stretch so timing does not drift. it's a big deal if
you're interested in peak performance and keeping a handle on emissions.

 

that's a different thread. trying to find excuses to not give me my money?

 

actually, bmw spend more r&d dollars on product life limitation than any
other manufacturer.[/QUOTE]

what we used to call "planned obsolesence" when GM does it.

 

what we used to call "planned obsolesence" when GM does it.[/QUOTE]


http://www.bmw.com/com/en/insights/technology/technology_guide/articles/recycling.html

it's actually a very high-tech business. and costs a lot of money. if
you want to design metal fatigue into a transmission for instance, you
have to account for the different loadings and usage lives of each ratio.

first gear has a very limited life in terms of cycles - only a few
hours. top gear has thousands of hours. in terms of fatigue, there are
very different failure mechanisms applicable in each application and
therefore designing life limitation is very hard.

the second part of that equation is statistical. the "bathtub curve" is
a very difficult to get right. a /lot/ of research time is devoted to it.

the bizarre paradox in that designing something that works indefinitely
is relatively easy. designing it to work, then fail, is where the
rocket science comes in. and once the research is done, then it has to
be manufactured. again, that costs more because q.c. has to be tighter.
up to 20% more. but it pays back in increased sales.

 

Now who is bullshitting. "25 degrees" ?
They don'r really stretch, you just get wear in the links and that
will only be a few degrees before it wore enough to break
If it jumped a whole tooth it would only be 8-10 degrees (the usual
result of too much wear). It still will not destroy the engine. That
sudden timing shift will alert all but the dumbest guy that it is time
to change the chain ... but you can still drive to the auto parts
store for the parts and you engine will recover the failure with
valves and pistons intact.

 

the best quote:
"Even at the earliest stages of vehicle development and production, BMW
considers what will happen at the end of the vehicle's service life"

they're not kidding.

 

One of my old SCCA buddies was into nursing BMWs through their second
100 k miles. (before most Americans really knew what a BMW was) His
biggest complaint was the availabilty and price of parts.

 

What fucking planet are you on. BMW have to offer recycling arrangements like
any other manufacturers has to just that they actually advertise the fact that
their vehicles actually do have an END OF LIFE which is probably a lot longer
than yours at this rate.
--

Sir Hugh of Bognor

The difference between men and boys is the price of their toys.

Intelligence is not knowing the answer but knowing where and how to find it!

Hugh Gundersen

Bognor Regis, W.Sussex, England, UK

 

Why don't you just admit that you are a 12 year old kid with no brains.
--

Sir Hugh of Bognor

The difference between men and boys is the price of their toys.

Intelligence is not knowing the answer but knowing where and how to find it!

Hugh Gundersen

Bognor Regis, W.Sussex, England, UK

 

You call it pedantry. I call it accuracy. And, no, you got it wrong
again. How does that *not* grate on your ear?

 

for long chain, one lash to the other, no tensioner, sure. that's an
extreme end of the scale, but it's possible.

ok weisenheimer - the industry knows it as "stretch" even though it's
technically not.

no, chains rarely break. but they can wear dramatically.

for the porsche cited earlier, a 14 tooth crank gear would be 25.7 degrees.

depends if it's interference or not.

depends if it's interference or not.

but that's not the point. if the chain is worn enough to skip, it's
being run as a gross polluter. and long before. that is stupid and
easily avoided with a belt.

 

No. You should have quit while you were behind. You're just making
it worse.

 

it's hardly mature to contest the person rather than their words. if
you disagree with something, say so and argue your point.

 

The chunk of metal that I am talking about doesn't unbolt from
anything. It is a welded part of the unibody and blocks most of the
face of the engine. In fact I had to lower the engine to even get the
pulley holder on since the hex cutout was blocked in the running
position. Are we really talking about the same car?

 

There are only about 3 running threads on the Honds BB, why are you
having so much trouble following them. The money is still good Where
are you? Within 100 mi of Ft Myers Fla?

 

GM and Ford have both had some successful models. In fact, GM was the
only major automaker that had sales increases last month. Ford is coming
out with a new Fiesta, which will be sold in all markets. So finally,
Ford is doing what Toyota and Honda do so well: Make one vehicle and
sell it all over the world. Ford had some success with the
Contour/Mystique (aka Mistake)/Mondeo, so perhaps the Fiesta will be a hit.

 

i'm not a filing clerk. as of 9:32 pacific, this thread alone has 316
posts. and i generally only remember conversation with the very smart
of the very dumb. i only started paying attention to you when you said
you wanted to give me money.

so drive to california. you want to prove the point. i'll wait for you
to get here. i'll have used notes please.

 

All of this assumes the owner never did a "tune up" or put a timing
light on it. Any mechanic with an ounce of knowlege knows timing
drifts because the chain is wearing. The other way timing changes is
"points" but I bet there are kids here who have never seen a point and
capacitor distributor. Even then, new points, properly gapped, should
put the timing back in spec. If you are advancing the distributor (cam
shaft pickup or whatever) you are tracking chain wear.

I will agree if your timing is based on a crankshaft pickup you will
miss this. Considering most of this chain wear is happening in the
second hundred thousand miles, there will be lots of things beyond cam
timing that are making your car pollute. I am sure your Hondas are not
all that clean after the 105k belt change either.

OTOH the new emission controls do a pretty good job. My old 86 LeBaron
(well over 100k) was burning close to a quart of oil per tank of gas
(no leaks, no smoke, no black smudge on the bumper) and it still
passed the emission test. I assume the computer just compensated for
the oil and leaned out the mix.

 

Pray tell why, if they don't stretch, they require a tensioner?