Consider buying American!

I am not a mechanic.
Please list advantages in simple keywords to help me look up the details.

 

Most of us aren't mechanics; these advantages have little or nothing
to do with vehicle maintenance, but are inherent in the design of
automobiles. Arguably, anyone with a driver's license *should*
understand these tradeoffs when buying a car.

understeer, oversteer, packaging, FWD, RWD, mid-engine, AWD
Wikipedia has a good set of articles and links.

FloydR

 

Reminds me of an old saying a very great friend said to me many moons ago...

"why how is this so" or for the simple minds here - "Why does this happen"

It is the kind of thing that BOYS used to have inbred with Little Mechanic kits
(Meccano here in the UK) and House building kits using miniature bricks and fake
cement.

Boys used to make pavement racers from old wooden boxes and pram wheels and then
bought old motorbikes to strip and rebuild (NOT to make it something special) it
to see if they could, to get it running and to learn to ride it.

Now I read that 30% will be gay by the year 2010 and many at the school where I
teach (electronics) many boys couldn't tell a spanner from a teacup but they all
know how to use a cell phone and swear constantly.

Not many MECHANICS about either as many are trained as PARTS FITTERS and have no
idea why they are doing the job on your car just that they are paid to do what
they are told to do and go home. Anything like a FastFit centre near you?

How "we" as humans and you as US folk got to the moon really beats me sometimes
and ever wondered why we didn't go back - the new breed couldn't get it
together!
--

Sir Hugh of Bognor

The difference between men and boys is the price of their toys.

Intelligence is not knowing the answer but knowing where and how to find it!

Hugh Gundersen

Bognor Regis, W.Sussex, England, UK

 

ohmigod, do people really think like you?

 

I was quite speachless after reading this myself
Amazing, isn't it?

 

Don't you guys know when you're being wound up?

 

Dizzy specializes in short remarks, 50% of which are insults.

There are no significant advantages to RWD for the large majority of
drivers and there are some significant disadvantages. That's the
reason you see FWD in so many cars today. If you are a performance
oriented driver, RWD has definite advantages.

The primary advantage for FWD is that it places the majority of the
cars weight over the driven wheels. That results in better traction in
slippery conditions.

A downside is that the driving tires are also the steering tires so
that when a wheel slips you loose both driving traction and steering
ability.

Also, when you launch off the line quickly, the weight of any car is
displaced towards the rear of the vehicle, causing the front end to
lift. With FWD, this reduces traction and the front tires can spin.

RWD does not have the lift problem on launch. In fact, the
displacement of weight towards the rear actually increases the weight
over the driven tires. This is a feature.

RWD also does not lose much steering traction under heavy throttle
conditions as the steering tires are not the driven tires. It does
displace weight from the steering tires which is not particularly
good, but that's hard to avoid completely.

RWD has a disadvantage in that the weight of the car is typically
displaced about 60/40 towards the front of the car. So, in slippery
conditions, RWD will lose traction sooner. Many folks with RWD put
sand bags in the rear of the car to add weight in the Winter just to
get around in the snow.

The primary advantage of RWD is that you can use the power to steer
the vehicle in a corner, the so called throttle steer. By applying
power you can push the rear end out (in a reasonably balanced car) and
use it to force you tighter and flatter into a corner and then push
you out the other side as you let the turning circle loosen.

FWD tends to pull out of the corner when throttle is applied. You can
still use it flatten the car and pull you out of a corner, but it's
not nearly as useful coming into and through the corner.

Take all of this with a grain of salt. With the proper modifications,
most any car can be made to drive well beyond the limits most people
will encounter, even in "spirited" driving. As just one example,
stiffer rear springs, equal length drive shafts, and a tuned
suspension can eliminate many of the disadvantages of FWD.

And, in case you are wondering... the ideal configuration is a mid
engine with rear drive. Weight is balanced and you get RWD advantages.
Unfortunately it does not work well with normal passenger
configurations so you see it mostly in two seat sports vehicles where
they are willing to give up the back seat and to have the marketing
oddity of a shallow front trunk/boot.

I'm sure some people will pick this apart piece by piece as soon as
it's posted, but the general concepts are correct.

 

Your post was not bad, except for this bit of nonsense. It is rare
for a modern RWD car to be worse than 55/45. Most BMW's are 50/50 or
very close to it.

(Contrast that with typical FWD car's 63/27 weight ratio - damn near
TWICE as much weight on the front as on the rears - a major
disadvantage for handling and performance.)

Your notions are obsolete, in regards to modern cars with stability
control systems. I will concede that RWD owners in the snow-belt
should get real Winter tires, while most FWD cars can get-by with
all-seasons.

 

That should say 63/37 up there...

 

Thank you, Bob - your e-mail was very usefull.

 

Dizzy! Where the hell did you get to?

 

That's not typical in my experience. I would concede to the 55/45.
But, that weight is a traction advantage.

It is not a performance issue for 99.95% of drivers. A FWD car can be
made to handle very well - strict performance driving (again)
excepted.

Ad for the BMW's, congrats if they are now that close. I haven't
worked on one since the 2002 (and I don't mean model year). But, most
drivers don't drive cars designed on caliber with BMW engineering. For
most drivers, less expensively designed FWD cars fit better.

They are not obsolete. Perhaps you don't live in snow country. If you
did, you could go to the hardware store and watch the bags of sand
sell. RWD cars with traction control do better. Unfortunately, John Q.
Public doesn't usually drive a car with traction control.

The tire issue is also significant - FWD drivers can drive a high
performance all season tire and enjoy very good handling year round.
Even in snowy areas, roads are clear 80% of the time. The RWD owner
has to put up with crappy handling, noisy, rough, snow tires for the
entire Winter season if he wants to be able to move when there's snow
on the ground.

 

Just to add.
How many race tracks allow FWD cars to compete, whether they are on dirt
or paved tracks?

 

Quite a few.

 

Not true at all of the V rated Dunlop Winter Sport M3s mounted on my E46 BMW
328i. For a tire that does very well in snow, both dry and wet handling are
quite amazing with a better ride than the summer Conti Sport Contacts.

You might want to investigate the current "performance" winter tires
available from a number of tire makers.

Tom K.

 

pretty much /all/ afaik. it's not the track but the type of meet that
determines what vehicles are actually on it at any given time.

 

Interesting. I'll keep an eye on them.

 

Funny you say that because many of the Euroland cars are FWD the BTCC or rather
the Touring car races have about 80% FWD with the odd BMW here and there driving
the back wheels. This used to be the The British Saloon Car Championships but
because everyone that used to buy saloons (sedan) began buying Estate cars or
wagons for their 2.5 children and 3 dogs (inc wife in many cases) it had to
renamed - even VOLVO raced an estate or a shooting brake or station wagon or
whatever - driver had to wear blinkers as do all VOLVO drivers do....

--

Sir Hugh of Bognor

The difference between men and boys is the price of their toys.

Intelligence is not knowing the answer but knowing where and how to find it!

Hugh Gundersen

Bognor Regis, W.Sussex, England, UK

 

**In the US, just check out the Touring Car races like SCCA World
Challenge etc. Good stuff. FYI for those in the US: The BTCC (British
Touring Car Championship) is some of the most incredible and exciting
racing that I've ever seen. Last week, I received the 2-disc set of
the 2007 BTCC racing season from Amazon UK. Normally, SpeedTV shows
BTCC off-season but they're slowly weeding out any programming that's
even remotely entertaining in favor of brightly colored Skittles that
race around an oval for 7 hours.

kaboomie

 

Then you aren't an experienced driver.

The front-heaviness of FWD is an advantage ONLY in VERY poor-traction
situations, like snow. Otherwise, it is a SEVERE disadvantage, both
in handling AND in traction.

FACT, not opinion.

Quit pulling ignorant bullshit out of your ass, please.

FWD is inferior for handling. Period. For performance driving, it
*sucks*.

Everything but when there's snow on the streets excepted.

In your opinion. At least you wrote "most drivers" this time, instead
of your 99.95% bullshit.

Yes, they are, and yes, I do.

Maybe people with old pickups. Not modern RWD cars.

You're showing your ignorance. Traction control has been *common* on
better RWD cars for over a DECADE.

You are showing your ignorance again. Modern Winter tires are not
"crappy handling", "noisy", or "rough". Do you really think people
driving RWD luxury cars would put up with that?

And, of course, you miss the other side of the coin. The Winter tires
allow clearly superior braking and handling in adverse conditions,
which means better safety. Also, the Summer months are driven on
dedicated Summer performance tires, which kick-ass on no-season
radials for handling and performance.

FWD is a cheaper "compromise" to get through life, for sure. But it's
drastically inferior to RWD. This is why all the bast cars are RWD.